Mormon / Evangelical Debate - Tanner / Wallace - Part 2 of 3
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@trencher7 I wouldn't call obedience works, as far as salvation goes, when the scriptures do not call it that. You are correct though, "It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin."
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 My defining "work" - The outward expression of inward faith. Faith and works are inseparable - Jesus is the source of works for those who have faith, and those works are presented as "fruit." A Christian bears fruits of the spirit because it is the nature of the Christians to do so. This bearing of fruit is not always easy since a born-again Christian, after he is saved, has two natures within that are always warring with each other. The natural man against the spiritual man.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I saw I was a lost soul. I saw myself as God sees me. Not how man sees me but how God sees me. My salvation produces good works (Howbeit, not as much as I want) and if doing good works is a condition to keep me saved to get me into heaven, then I wouldn’t make it. God’s grace means unmerited favor. I didn’t deserve (merit) God’s grace before I Got saved, how could I merit keeping it after I got saved?
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I didn’t want to end up in hell which is where I was headed and I knew it. When God drew me, He gave me faith to believe the gospel. I knew I was a wicked sinner, deserving God’s wrath, condemnation and punishment. That’s repentance.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I did whatever I was told by God. I didn’t think about whether it was a work or not. At that point, I wasn’t worried about what was works and what wasn’t works. I didn’t know much about that stuff yet. But, I knew my wicked condition and enough of the gospel to tell me I needed a savior to save me from God’s wrath.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@diesbl How do you define "work"? Even though the Lord asks us to participate in our salvation none of it "earns" us Salvation. There's nothing wrong with calling our obedience as works as long as you aren't assuming they make God obligated to save us. It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin.
trencher7 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “. . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”
When God drew me to Jesus Christ (John 6:44 –“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”), and I heard the gospel, and obeyed what God said I needed to do to be saved, I obeyed Him and He saved me. He did the work in my heart.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Jesus’ conversation with these young men was not meant to be didactic. The fact that Jesus was challenging them to do something Jesus knew they couldn’t or wouldn’t do, their reaction was clear as to what they were trusting in.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 The same thing happens in In Matt. 19:17-19. Jesus tells the young man that eternal life comes by keeping the commandments. Jesus is showing the man that anyone who can perfectly keep the law cannot be accused of being a lawbreaker (James 2:10). He also, was trusting in the wrong thing.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Jesus, in telling this man to sell all that he had, was showing that the man was trusting in the wrong thing. He was trusting in his riches to earn himself salvation instead of trusting in Jesus and His gospel. See Mark 10:24,
diesbl 2 weeks ago