More Atheist Morality

A response to CapnOrdinaries video "The Moral Atheist".

I liked what CapnOrdinary had to say but felt that he was lumping together three different types of theist. One type of theist who is just genuinely interested in why people behave morally, one who has a genuine question in ethics and one who is just trying to win an argument by parroting the second kind of theists argument without really understanding it. I think most theists asking this kind of question fall into either the first or second category and that the third kind are disproportionately represented on YouTube.

This is half an attempt to explain why I think there is a real debate here, and half an attempt to get those theists who cant explain the argument they are presenting to at least approach the problem more humbly.

Anyway I find his presentation fun so if you are interested in more of his videos on morality here are a couple more

Morality Redux - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGLrNiyBz2U
Yet Another Morality Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhJYWZ72rgA

CapnOrdinary no longer uploads to this channel so if you want to find his newer videos look here

NeoDolph1n - http://www.youtube.com/user/NeoDolph1n

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• atheism
• theism
• morality
• objective
• absolute
• CapnOrdinary
• theist
• atheist

[zaxgamez]

Morality's Definition - Comformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.

It's not objective.

[nanoduckling]

@zaxgamez Your definitions are contradictory. Conformity to rules is deontological, virtuous implies the virtue theory of ethics. These are two different concepts of morality. Defining morality as moral behaviour is just circular. To make your case you need to show that the rules of right conduct or the appropriate virtues are not objective. I agree they aren't, but just stating it doesn't make it so. Those who disagree with us would probably reject your definition anyway.

[allinsman]

Moral is NOT objective. What moral a person gets is depending on what enviroment the person grow up in. F.ex honourkillings is unheard of in the west while it's encouraged in the muslim world. In China it's ok to fart at a restaurant while most other places it's not. Moral is NOT objective. However some things are universally agreed on like killing is bad (Wich it also is within all other mammal groups) stealing etc. This is because it's antiscocial behaviour and we're scocial animals.

[nanoduckling]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think morality is objective. I simply argued one could rationally believe morals to be absolute and objective and be an atheist. I don't think moral facts exist at all, never mind subjective or objective moral facts.

Also, a sociopath with no conscience has no sense of right and wrong, thus even killing is not universally agreed upon.

[allinsman]

@nanoduckling I think some things can be understood as morally objective by most people undependent of their religion or philosophy like killing and stealing. Basicly the same I said the first time. However these are sometimes things dependent on who you kill or steal from.

[nanoduckling]

@allinsman Well by objective I mean a property of something independent of what people think. Universal (or near universal) is not the same as objective. Quantum entanglement is an objective property of appropriately set up two photon systems, but it certainly isn't universally believed. One for a thing which morality (any morality) could be a property of is the conscience. I believe that facts about the conscience are descriptive rather than prescriptive and thus not moral. Another is god.

[nanoduckling]

Darn nab it, that should read "One thing which a morality (any morality) could be a property of is the conscience".

Probably worth mentioning that I don't believe in god so I clearly don't think that is a source of objective morality.

[zaxgamez]

@nanoduckling I know, because most internet people are basically irratational.

But I am sure glad I got someone on my side. Thanks!

[zaxgamez]

@nanoduckling Oh my god! It's a nerd fight! :P

[SirWinstonChurchill]

@allinsman

("... these are sometimes things dependent on who you kill or steal from.")

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Yes, superior firepower...

[SirWinstonChurchill]

"Morality" and all of those associated, artificial ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

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Nature is pure war with every man against another, so man is only civilized by the threat of violence against him for transgressions upon his neighbor. Nature does not care, nature does not need human permission. Nature kills everything, there is nothing eternal, everything dies...

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"Morality" is nothing more than a phantasm.