Human Conceit, Dominionism

Sagan questions anthropocentrism, especially as it relates to religion.

Consider how this relates to our attitude towards the other animals that live on earth.

Thought experiment: What would happen if aliens who were as technologically/intellectually advanced beyond us as we are beyond chickens, were able find and make their way to earth? Now imagine that they, like most humans, consider their relative advancement or "difference" from other species as moral justification for exploiting other species they view as "lower" beings.

Now imagine that they like to eat meat. What do you think would be the outcome?

On the topic of placing this in the Pets & Animals category: Carl was the advisor to the Cornell Students for the Ethical treatment of Animals. When i spoke to his wife, Ann Druyan, she said she thought Carl had gotten to the point where he would never buy another leather jacket. Anyway his remarks here also apply to our attitudes towards other species.

Thanks to RayDouble for the vid.

April 5, 2008
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Category:

Pets & Animals

Tags:

• Carl
• Sagan
• anthropocentric
• speciesism
• racism
• Pangea
• Day
• vegan
• animal
• rights
• God
• religion
• atheism
• COSMOS
• Pale
• Blue
• Dot
• Appreciation
• Society

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Oh crap, i did it *again*! I hit Remove instead of Reply. This is getting absurd. Youtube needs a Confirm/Undo. I know many others get bitten by this with the Reply and Remove options right next to each other.

[atrumira]

Extremely well spoken.

But then no less could ever have been expected from Sagan.

[journeyman47]

David: think about this: the first Maori made it to New Zealand around 12oo. By 1500 all 11 species of Moa were exctinct. The Maori were hunter-gatherers.

The aborigines arrived in Australia 46,000 years ago, the same time the last fossils of over 60 species of marsupials appear.

They too were hunter-gatherers.

When the Clovis people (hunter-gatherers) spread across North America, another contintent was emptied of its large mammals, including mammoths and giant sloths.

Any questions?

[Wordsmith65]

@themasteriswatching Oh dear, you really have missed my point entirely, so that would make you the douche! My moral reasoning for vegetarianism is to not kill any being regardless of species - intergalactic or otherwise And sorry, humans are indeed different and more selfish than EVERY other species on the planet - we are the only species who stuff our faces to the point of immobile obesity, and we stockpile more than we need and in the process strip the resources bare.

[themasteriswatching]

@Wordsmith65 In conclusion your moral reasoning for vegetarianism is still just speciesist, you sounded like a douche, and your thought experiment is irrelevant because humans (i.e. aliens) respond to incentives, not bumper stickers. With regards to diet, humans are no more selfish than any other species on the planet. Vegetarianism has nothing to do with what Sagan is saying.

[themasteriswatching]

@Wordsmith65 So basically you are saying that those beings that taxonomists consider to be categorically different from you genetically do not fall into what you consider to be a "fellow being". And I wouldn't be OK with aliens eating my "kids", but then again I wouldn't expect them to give a shit, and if they did (they wouldn't), surely beings with intergalactic travel can think of better forms of sustenance than travelling across the universe to eat sapient life, Wordsmith.

[Wordsmith65]

OMG, perfect timing! I just went to BBQ today, and was explaining why I don't eat meat anymore, and I just told everyone, that it was this simple - it was a moral decision, because I could no longer participate in the murder of my fellow beings. I asked them - if aliens landed tomorrow, and decided to eat little humans, and they took your kids (and don't worry, they would 'free-range' them, so they'd have a good life). Would you be OK with your kids being 'slaughtered' the way your lunch was?

[blkcpdconure]

@MidnightTea7 Like when people say the population of the earth is 7 billion.

[blkcpdconure]

@Judas130 I agree. The word 'god' conjures up the image of some old bearded dude on a throne. A better word to use is Tao, in my opinion, but there are many labels that all pretty much mean the same thing.

[Judas130]

@blkcpdconure then 'god' becomes a synonym we might as well not need.

[blkcpdconure]

If god is everywhere at all times then that means everyone and everything is really god and the perceived differences are just an illusion

[MidnightTea7]

@MusicMan53100 It's not just about the form. "The way we think" or "the way we perceive the world" can be also very anthropocentric... In other words, humanity can - and ofter is - very egocentric.

[MidnightTea7]

So true!