Cruci-fiction Or Cruci-fixion?-Shabir Ally Vs Annis Shorrosh

The third debate between Shabir Ally and Anis Shorrosh.

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• Cruci-fiction
• Or
• Cruci-fixion?-Shabir
• Ally
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• Annis
• Shorrosh

[shieldsff]

A final point I would raise is that the central truth of the original prophets was NOT submission anywhere or that there is a unitary god (for example, both baal & molech were claimed as [names] for god). The central truth is that there is One God and only One True & Living God. It is this God we are commanded to worship. Also, Muhamm. claims that he received his revelations from an angelic being. Can any examples be offered of earlier prophets who received written revelations from angels

[Nazam44]

@shieldsff Ahh, Yes! Moses! Received the 10 commandments by means of angels. See Galatians 3:19.

[mosharma134]

Jesus is nothing more than a Prophet. If Jesus were God, he should have known the hour of the day of judgement. His family had rejected him as God.

God CANNOT come in human form, for it will subject God to his own commandments. It is impossible to be infinite (God) and finite (Man) at the same time.

Jesus was saved b4 crucifiction. Jesus, a prophet, would never question God's will if he were do die by saying "why have thou forsaken me" and disrespectfully call his mother "woman". Only Judas!

[PitbullD]

The suffering servant you are talking about was Israel not jesus. Read chapter 48-54 and it will be clear. I myself believed that too. But after reading it, i was convinced that it was not jesus but only israel, the nation.

[Legend1One]

@derekyellow2005 If all you see is hate and death from the Muslim religion, then you do not know Islam nor any Muslims. Jesus (PBUH) was a Muslim, so it's baffling how can you fix your mind to such a thing? A Muslim is one who submits his will to do the will of God. Did not Jesus (PBUH) do this? Muslims believe in Jesus' miraculous birth, the miracles he wroth (by God permission), and that he is the Messiah. In the future, learn something before posting, because you sound small.

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44-thanks for responding- so R U implying that Moses received all his scriptures from angels? Assuming this is true, how come it's not a specifically, named angel (like Gabrielle who supposedly came to Muhamm.) ? As you cite Moses here, do you believe that this God of Moses is the true God of Creation. Since YOU cite Paul in this instance, are you implying that you accept the other writings & teachings of Paul? Do you accept that Jesus & Paul received their scriptures from angels?

[shieldsff]

Note Paul is discussing the relationship of faith to the Law of Mose. Check out v.16- "now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made...." can I ask how was this promise made or communicated to Abraham- was it angel like to Moses & if not why? Also note vs 13-14:"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us: for it is written cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree; that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ".

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44 But, have do you "as a muslim" have special knowledge of which of Jesus' words are of 'equal status & validity'. Wouldn't it mean that you are corrupting the teachings and full truth of God if you are subjectively accepting some of Jesus' words and not his full sayings. Would your statement also apply to the words of Abraham and Moses for example ? Also, if I as a christian selectively accepted some of the words of Muhammad and rejected others is that acceptable in Islam ?

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 well then my friend you should visit S Arabia like i Have but you would not see such artifacts you would find in i.e Egypt or Rome due to the reason i have pointed out to before. Anyways All the best on your search. The reason why i have said to read the historic account is not all are written by Muslim but many are written by others most against the prophet with their prejudice.

[Putnis1]

@hish0071 Maybe I will one day visit S.Arabia.

But writings of people, are not factual evidence; although these writing are classed as primary evidence, they are not classified as factual evidence, such as the same evidence of the pagan worshippers pre-islam. Quoting Micheal Hart finding is not factual evidence.

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 Another point you need to understand Prophet Muhammad did not live a lavish life in this earth for him to have built palaces, to have other artifacts such as Beds,jeweleries etc he was a humble servant of God just like Jesus who left no artifact superficial i.e the persian,Egyptians who have left treasures,. He slept on floor so you wont find a bed or he wore humble clothes hence you will not find adornment, He lived in shack where is buried. but the influence/name/ is far reaching