PZ Myers destroys Simmons in evolution debate 2of5

PZ Myers completely eviscerates his opposition Geoffrey Simmons in this classic debate. This Simmonds guy clearly knows bugger all regarding evolution but writes books about it. Can we expect anything else from the Discovery Institute? I suggest that the DI send the fitness guru Richard Simmonds next time. Make sure you check out the classic bait and switch just prior to the debate which results in Simmonds not having to present any positive evidence for Intelligent Design. This is becoming a common switch as they clearly do not want to debate the issue. I was going to upload the audio only but found that nethius had put together some nice visuals. Check him out here,
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=nethius

Category:

Education

Tags:

• PZ
• myers
• discovery
• institute
• simmons
• intelligent
• design

[djpob]

"150 years later the fossil record is even more incomplete!"

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

[ArchRascal]

While I'm sure there are many more of these moments in this "debate", the point where Simmons criticizes evolution for being a theory vs a fact should be the end of the discussion. It's like criticizing calculus for being a branch of mathematics vs an equation and therefore concluding that the entire field of calculus is suspect. It's not surprising that biologists discourage each other from entering these kinds of "debates".

[dingodavid]

Hey Simmo!

Your ignorance about the state of the fossil record is not evidence that there are holes in evolutionary theory.

[superiorplanet]

2 mins, I can't stand him, he's pulled the "it's only a theory" the "I was a staunch EVOLUTIONIST" ...WTF!!!!! and that there is a debate about it. *sigh* I can't wait for PZ to rip him a new one

[Huckxxx]

Simmons: 'Darwin said we're descended from monkeys.'

END OF DEBATE. Fucking moron.

[TheAspietunes]

This turd makes it sound like we have gigantic gaps in every lineage. What an ass.

[infinit888]

@smoothpeople33 "The chances are so slim and problematic here on earth that it must be imported in from other parts of the universe."

I'm not really in favor of the panspermian model. No matter where you put the likelihood of abiogenesis occurring the pansperimian model takes that probability and adds further problems. It is not the most parsimonious hypothesis.

[infinit888]

@smoothpeople33 That said we will have to go into deep detail considering how the tar/carboxylic acids would harm or could potentially help life being formed.

To me however that would seem like an exercise in futility as we know that the experiment does not accurately reflect what scientists believe the early atmosphere to be. Like I've pointed out there have been several experiments since Urey-Miller which are both better in quality and yield and more align with the prebiotic atmosphere.

[infinit888]

@smoothpeople33 You'll have to provide more context in your criticisms. I don't know how the descriptive term 'toxic' is supposed to relate to prebiotic chemistry as it is a term that relates to organisms and is inherently tied to dosage. There is nothing implicit chemically destructive about 'toxic' chemicals.

Could you give me a reference to the numbers you've provided? I can't find them in the original paper.

[smoothpeople33]

@infinit888 Here is how science should work...

1.Obseserve a phenomenon.

2.Seek patterns and meaures in the observation.

3.Formulate a hypothesis from the description.

4.Gather independent data to CHALLENGE the hypothesis.

Theories can never be proven...they can defy being dis-proven. Non verifiable/untestable statements are meaningless in science. I don't blame evolution theory from ditching the term chemical evolution when describing abiogenisis.

[smoothpeople33]

@infinit888 This is a case where honesty with the problems of life springing from non life is at least addressed. The chances are so slim and problematic here on earth that it must be imported in from other parts of the universe.

If there is a theory that all sheep are white and a black sheep shows up...that's all that is really needed to falsify the theory.

[smoothpeople33]

@infinit888 One big fact is that 98% of the material created in the miller experiment is toxic..

1. 85% Tar

2. 13% carboxylic acids

2% amino acids which only contain 8 of 20 of the necessary building blocks needed for life.

The amount of variables added to the experiment don't simulate the real world.