Dr. J. Vernon McGee Refutes Calvinism - Doctrine of Election and Free Will (Part 2)

Ezra 7:13  I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own Freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

1 Corinthians 7:37  Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but [hath power over his own Will] ...

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Category:

Education

Tags:

• McGee
• Spurgeon
• Doctrine
• of
• Election
• Free
• Will
• Calvinism
• Heresy
• Blasphemy

[Paedobaptism]

@Rachella38 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. (John 17:9 ESV) explain this verse to me and don't jump to other subjects.

[Rachella38]

@Paedobaptism You said a day ago> I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. (John 17:9 ESV) explain this verse to me and don't jump to other subjects.

Just because I'm answering your questions doesn't give you the right of accusing me of doing something I'm not doing. Secondly, you should stop acting like you're a member of a cult.

[Rachella38]

@Paedobaptism Cult members like isolating a verse and building an entire doctrine of error around it without taking the entire Bible into consideration. That's what Calvinists do. Now to John 17:9.....

In this verse, Jesus said that He was not praying for the "world." The question becomes...why did He say that? Here's the answer.....

[Rachella38]

@Paedobaptism First of all, the Greek word "kosmos," translated "world" in this verse, can take on several meanings. Based on the context of this verse, it refers to those who the Father has not given to the Son...right? According to the Blue Letter Bible, they are "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ."

Secondly, I hope you're not claiming that this verse proves that Jesus never prayed for those who are not of the elect.

[Rachella38]

@Paedobaptism All John 17:9 is saying is that He was not praying for the non-elect at that particular time. There were times that Jesus prayed for non-elect persons. For example, in Luke 23:34 He prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

[Rachella38]

@Paedobaptism In Matthew 23:37 Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

Notice that Jesus didn't say that they "could not." He said they "would not." "Would not" implies ability, "could not" implies inability.

[Rachella38]

@MrsWLeach That's right. God doesn't want ANYONE to perish. Can't get any clear, than that.

And he died for the whole world. Not just the elect, which there are two elects. Israel and those who believe.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Eternity is by our own choice. Again, he doesn't want anyone to perish. Jesus offers everyone eternal life. Hey, anybody be crazy not want to take him up on that offer.

[Rachella38]

@MrsWLeach  Amen! Thanks for your post. Much appreciated.

[Mcfirefly2]

@John 3:16 does not refute the rest of scripture, but no true understanding will compromise it. Any true interpretation will agree with the promises of the gospel.

[Mcfirefly2]

@Paedobaptism In Acts 3, Peter preached a sermon in Jerusalem, and 3,000 believed and were saved. Many if not all were probably people who said "Crucify him!" and for whom He prayed.

[Mcfirefly2]

That somehow got in the clipboard wrongly; it comes from another board. Sorry.

[Mcfirefly2]

[QUOTE=armylngst;2384241]Yes, but if the message is irresistable, so powerful, so deep that it actually changes the person's will? Such things have happened even separate from Christianity. It would be like finding out you just won a zillion dollars, and that beautiful woman beside who showed up after you won is still standing there lovestruck even after finding out that it was someone else with the same name. That would probably be a real eye opener, and you probably still wouldn't belie

[Mcfirefly2]

@Paedobaptism But some of them, like Saul of Tarsus, later turned to Him and were saved, although not all received Him.

[Paedobaptism]

@Rachelle38 Yes you are right Jesus said " forgive them for they know not what they do" But you cannot prove by this text that Jesus was asking for " saving forgivness" this is more of "patience towards vessels of wrath "prepared" for destruction" romans 9:22.

[Paedobaptism]

@Rachelle38 Matthew 23 the most misquote verse used by the free-will advocate. I agree with you on that they were not willing. No one denies that. scripture is clear that ALL who will perish are NOT WILLING Romans 3:10-12 and also not ABLE John 6:44, John 6:65. God has to grant repentance. There is NONE who SEEK after God Psalm 14:1-4

[Paedobaptism]

@Rachella38 exactly what I and those in the Reform side have been saying for centuries. " Kosmos" can take several meanings. "Kosmos" does not always mean "ALL MEN" And in John 3:16 God gave his son for "EVERYONE BELIEVING" not Goats and sheep.

[Paedobaptism]

@Rachella38 again here you have again Jesus not praying for some people. You cannot get around that. I can say the same of your doctrine. You guys build up your belief on John 3:16 and think that refutes the rest of God's word.