Thinking About Creation: Irreducible Complexity Pt. 1

This video discusses the basics of what irreducible complexity is and how it relates to design theory.

Category:

Howto & Style

Tags:

• Creation
• Evolution
• Intelligent
• Design
• Irreducible
• complexity

[macguy]

I would like to give you my appreciations for creating such a video! I've been needing a simplistic introductory of Irreducible Complexity for my classmates. Just thought I'd drop by to say thanks as many people here are evolutionists blindly attacking your video as usual. They're a rather active voice these days.

[baraminology]

Thanks! And one thing to take particular notice of, is that, while many people say that IC is an argument from ignorance and only anti-evolution (instead of pro-design), this whole video on IC never mentions evolution once, is not a negative argument against anything. It just shows the connection between IC and design.

[Bacchant33rd]

Baraminology is considered a pseudo-science & the motivation for its pursuit tells the whole story. That is how I can tell that the etymology of the word "baramin" betrays the motivation behind speaking out against evolution. The term doesn't even etymologically respect the bible.

I understand the concern with materialism & the desire to combat it with Christian values, but putting oneself at odds with orthodox science is not the way to do it. Orthodox science is not the root of all evil.

[Bacchant33rd]

The fundamentalist Christian holds the bible as the ultimate authority. I would think that respecting the Good Book also entails using the Good Book in its proper context.

Biblical etymology of "bara min":

From Genesis chapter 1, mentioned in verse 1 at its earliest, word 2; "bara" (בָּרָא ), literally means "created."

From Genesis chapter 1, mentioned in verses 11-24 but most notably verse 12; "l'minehu" (לְמִינֵהוּ), literally means "in its own kind."

[Bacchant33rd]

Mind you, I'm not trying to be rude or put down anyone's beliefs, but I feel compelled to address baraminology. I am a Christian, but I do not read the bible literally because I read it the way it has traditionally been read for 1800 years. I bring this up because of the fact that barminology is a reaction against what fundamentalist (in the back-to-basics sense, not derrogatory sense) Christians consider the social consequenses of materialism, the source of which is scientific materialism.

[Bacchant33rd]

There is a very important reason I bring up the motivation behind the pursuit of the field of baraminology. The scientific community does not even consider it a legitimate science. I search for it in academic databases & come up with nothing.

Baramin (ברא-מין): The term "baramin" was devised in 1990 by Kurt P. Wise, based on Frank Lewis Marsh's 1941 coinage of the term "baramin" from the Hebrew words bara (create) and min (kind).

BUT, "Bara-min" just takes the bible out of context.

[Bacchant33rd]

3 (continued). We can tell that the flagellum developed from the TTSS because a smaller subset of the full complement of proteins in the flagellum makes up the functional transmembrane portion of the TTSS.

[Bacchant33rd]

3 (continued). If the flagellum is indeed irreducibly complex, then removing just one part, let alone ten or fifteen, should render what remains "by definition nonfunctional." Yet the TTSS is indeed fully functional even though it is missing most of the parts of the flagellum... (continued in the next reply.)

[Bacchant33rd]

3...The TTSS works by using a handful of proteins from the base of the flagellum. From the evolutionary point of view, this relationship is hardly surpeising. In fact, it's to be expected that opportunism of evolutionary processes would mix & match proteins in order to produce new & novel functions. According to the doctrine of irreducible complexity, however, this should not be possible... (continued in the next reply).

[Bacchant33rd]

1. I knew evolvability was eventually going to covered.

2. I watched the video. My information has everything to do with irreducible complexity because the flagellum story is what creationists or intelligent design proponents use to "prove" that the flagellum is irreducibly complex.

3. [this is a longer answer pertaining even more to irreducible complexity]

-the etymology of the word "baramin" betrays the the motivation behind the desire to speak out against evolution.

[baraminology]

Three things: (1) We haven't covered evolvability yet, so it seems you didn't bother to watch the video. (2) Your information has nothing to do with irreducible complexity.  (3) Current studies show the TTSS to be derivative from the flagellum, not the other way around.

[Bacchant33rd]

At first glance, the existence of the TTSS, a device that allows bacteria to inject these toxins through the cell membranes of their hosts, would seem to have little to do with the flagellum. However, molecular studies of the proteins in the TTSS have revealed a surprising fact: the proteins of the TTSS are directly homologous to the proteins in basal portion of the flagellum.