Gilgamesh and Metacognition

Gilgamesh is a truly ancient story, and it has our philosopher musing on the use of "thinking about thinking" in fiction.

Prof Gregory Currie is speaking.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• thought
• thinking
• philosophy
• shakespeare
• jane
• austen

[paweloyama]

A very engaging talk. Many thanks to the unknown speaker. Oh and to - who I presume, was - Brady, behind the video camera.

I think Brady, that you should start adding the name of the speaker in the info box under each of your videos. It would help people identify the speaker, as well as give the speaker credit for what was - in most cases very succulently - said.

[PhilosophyFile]

@paweloyama it was Prof Gregory Currie - have actually been captioning Philosophy File vids, just forgot on this one.

[MagiMysteryTour]

Where does this guy get off stating as a definite fact that no animals except "possibly apes" (which he only reluctantly allows) think?

That's like saying there were no stories ever told before Gilgamesh, because we don't happen to have records of them. You don't know anything about the stories that were told orally and never written down. And you don't know anything about the thoughts that animals think but can't express in human language. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[scorpian8king]

@ThePeaceableKingdom Thant's interesting, inn pre deluge times i believe the respective races has GOD KINGS as it were... Gilgamesh being an offspring of such magnificent IMMORTALS. I believe they still do exist the immortals, in hiding or in places on earth which are secret. The great spirit sill has the last say...

Greeting from native american "indian," in new mexico.

[Wharwulif]

@Pikukat Eventually,the ability to "think" is actually your minds interaction with the world around it with recall-A spider can think,and it's obvious for there are races of them that set traps,and responds to different situation with different tactics.

Some ants actually Farm Fungi using leaves.

So,thinking is just Presenting what the senses show you within your mind to try and make sense of something,or try to materialize what to do next,or to recognize a specific scent they gain by senses.

[Wharwulif]

@itsabomberscope Gilgamesh,no doubt about it-That story comes from around the tome and place of the cradle of civilization,by what I learned

It's common from religious over time to take the works of other religious and simply reconvert them for their own usage...It happens all the time,in a funny way,it's preserving history...yet on the bad way,it deforms the events according to the needs of those who Rewrote that for their own needs,and to present their own religion has "better" in some manner.

[Pikukat]

@Wharwulif you're correct. Metacognition has been discovered in rats. You can be sure the trait is then present in other mammals too

[smawshot]

@ThePeaceableKingdom Well with that said, I would lean to it not being metacognition or ToM. By what you say, it appears that the conditions are in place that are just being shown off which is why he acts the way he does rather than through some insight into the thoughts of others.

[ThePeaceableKingdom]

@smawshot (cont.)

he shows his "god-like" power. (Gilgamesh was - by some generative math only a Sumerian can explain! - 2/3 god and 1/3 man) But the artist who composed the tale understands that *his audience* will understand the mental states of both characters because it would be necessary to do so in order to appreciate the strength of Gilgamesh - which I imagine is the point of the scene.

A case of meta meta-cognition, perhaps?...

[ThePeaceableKingdom]

@smawshot It's not as obvious a case as his contemplation of the end of conciousness. The goddess of love wants to have sex with him and promises to give him wonderful gifts and happiness. But Gilgamesh says you know, I wouldn't be your first boyfriend and it didn't turn out so well for all the others - and refuses. Is this because he thinks the goddess *intends* to deceive and knows her promises are lies? I don't think so. By refusing the goddess "no man can refuse", I think

(cont.)

[smawshot]

@ThePeaceableKingdom well that depends really. thinking about thinking usually implies a guess at the unpredictable actions or thoughts of another. did he ponder if doing so would make her cry to her father or did he just rebuke her for his own reasons alone? the first example would be metacognition or theory of mind, the latter is just a face value action that had a result with no consideration on gilgamesh's behalf.

[craigpsimpson]

The driving force in the narrative is Gilgamesh's wish to alleviate his fear of death, of which he is extremely conscious. Not only are charcters aware of their mental states, and discuss them, their meditations about these mental states instigate the action.  Metacognition is central to the Epic.