Enlightenment "Downsides" ~ Shinzen Young

"There's no informed consent to enlightenment". Shinzen talks about how people tend to overestimate and underestimate "enlightenment". He shares how wonderful the "experience" is, and then talks about "certain, peculiar downsides". Filmed in Nov. 2009 at Mt. Carmel Spiritual Centre in Niagara Falls.

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Education

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• Shinzen Young
• enlightenment
• awakening
• meditation
• consciousness
• mindfulness
• vipassana
• flow
• annicha
• aniccha
• impermanence
• zen
• Buddha
• Buddhist

[IdentMusic]

@mujaku I understand what you're saying, I'm not disputing or disagreeing that. My only point was regarding the attainment of stream entry, but I also know that this is where things get complicated and beyond a youtube exchange. You appear to know considerably more than me about Buddhism as a whole, my practice has been in the Theravadan tradition but I'll check out your blog. Thanks.

[mujaku]

@IdentMusic You can find me at The Zennist blog. See if we are not different for yourself.

[mujaku]

@IdentMusic There are two forms of what is generally called no-self. There is "nattha atta" lit. no self. This is nihilism. The Buddha did not teach this. Then there is anatta, lit., not-the-self. This pertains to the five khandhas. Each one we are to consider as not my self. And why? Because the khandhas belong to death and Mara the Evil One. The khandhas ARE suffering which is the first ariya truth. Remember the Buddha said Self and Dhamma are refuges when he is gone.

[mujaku]

@Yobo77 He is for beginners. There is no doubt. It is important to study Sutta/Sutra. Without this study, anyone can say the Buddha taught such and such when in fact he did not. For example, lots of modern Buddhist believe that the Buddha taught there is no self (Pali, nattha attâ). Not true. That would be annihilationism.

[fhumayun]

why disable embedding?

[IdentMusic]

@mujaku From a Mahayanist perspective, perhaps. Others may disagree. I've checked out some of your other comments, you clearly know what you're talking about so I'm wondering why you continue to disagree with Shinzen when he's saying the same thing as you are, just from a different angle on the thing when it comes to what constitutes 1st path.

[Yobo77]

@mujaku I would perhaps substitute some reading for sitting. To me what Shinzen Young speaks of makes perfect sense. Peace & Love!

[mujaku]

@IdentMusic The Lord taught otherwise in the Mahayanamahaparinirvanasutra:

"The atman is the Tathagatagarbha.  All beings possess a Buddha Nature: this is what the atman is. This atman, from the start, is always covered by innumerable passions (klesha): this is why beings are unable to see it."

Shinzen needs to remove the dust from his eyes and stop looking at Buddhism with the eye of flesh.

[IdentMusic]

@mujaku Also, Atman is not "Buddha nature", you may be mistaking the identification of one's "true self" with the Dhammakaya. All dharma are empty...

[IdentMusic]

@mujaku Perhaps a look at this from the perspective of the 10-Fetters would clarify where Shinzen is coming from? The entire personality belief vanishes on attaining stream entry, it would make sense to describe this realization as seeing that there is no self but it doesn't tell the whole story. The problem is, and it's probable that this is why they Buddha never denied or affirmed a self, that to describe no-self requires the concept of self to arise in the mind. Neither is true or false.