Islam Vs Science - An answer to Thunderf00t

****************************************************************

N.B.: This is NOT a pwnage video. Thunderf00t's scientific credentials are NOT in question simply because some of us disagree with his logic or use of the facts on this particular issue. I hope it is clear from the presentation of my video that I am not attacking him personally.

I do NOT claim to know the absolute truth on this subject, nor do I believe that I am free of prejudice and bias. If you have valid criticisms on my use of the data, I am more than happy to discuss or revise my own conclusions (personal biases permitting).

I am human and there could be errors in my data set (though I've tried to make sure it's accurate, do not treat this as if it's a peer-reviewed journal article- it's just a Youtube video). I suspect that only measuring the number of scientific publications is "unfair" to countries like the US, which I *think* (I haven't checked this!) produce much higher quality papers (i.e. higher impact as measured by citations, journal importance, etc.).

There are implied limitations and caveats to the analysis that I have not explicitly stated in the video. E.g. No. of papers published is just *one* way of measuring scientific performance (others include total citations, citations per paper, etc.).

I chose to use the SCImago database ( http://www.scimagojr.com ), not the Web of Science, because I couldn't figure out how to easily extract the data from the latter. I have no idea which way this biases my results- But I will point out that SCImago seems to have consistently higher counts of publications than the WoS does (perhaps it lists more journals?).

****************************************************************

* The two relevant Thunderf00t videos ----------------------------
- The Real threat from Islam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnEeTBuPQuo
- The Subtle Art of Self-Delusion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGZODG75kM


* Sofiarune's video ------------------------------------------------------
- An analysis of IOP Article and how Thunderf00t used it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4ng9tP6OCY


* References -------------------------------------------------------------

1:38 Lung cancer and smoking statistics - Key Facts (Cancer Research UK) http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/lung/

01:50 Science in the Muslim World - IOP article by Jim Al-Khalili http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/42134

02:32 Links to *some* users that made valid criticisms of Thunderf00t's videos:
- http://www.youtube.com/user/knr911
- http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTruePooka
- http://www.youtube.com/user/DLandonCole
- http://www.youtube.com/user/Anekantavad

04:10 Iran and Turkey scientific output
- Science in Turkey 2004-2008 (Science Watch) http://sciencewatch.com/dr/sci/10/apr4-10_2/
- Science and technology in Iran (wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Iran

04:32 Science-Metrix data on Iran and Turkey
- Interactive Trend Explorer http://www.science-metrix.com/30years/index.html#
- 30 Years in Science - Secular Movements in Knowledge Creation http://www.science-metrix.com/30years-Paper.pdf

04:40 Data on Iran and Turkey for 2005
- Update on Thai Publications in ISI Databases (1999-2005) http://www.scienceasia.org/2006.32.n2/v32_101_106.pdf

04:53 OIC Arab countries had a smaller research footprint than Harvard in 2005
- Science and Technology in the OIC Member Countries http://www.sesric.org/files/science/scienceandtechnologyinoicmembercountries.pdf

06:08 Research contribution of all OIC countries (4.18%)
- Mapping Scientific Research in Member States of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001831/183175e.pdf

06:31 China's scientific output
- With Output and Impact Rising, China's Science Surge Rolls On (Science Watch) http://sciencewatch.com/ana/fea/08julaugFea/

07:22 Data for analysis
- Scientific publications from SCImago Journal & Country Rank http://www.scimagojr.com/
- GDPs from wikipedia and google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
- Populations from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
- Muslim populations from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

08:17 Relationship between GDP and Scientific Output
- Relationship between growth in gross domestic product (GDP) and growth in the chemical engineering literature in five different countries (P. W. Hart and J. T. Sommerfeld) http://www.springerlink.com/content/c4852072l306r183/
- Scientific Output of Croatian Universities: Comparison with Neighbouring Countries (Boris Podobnik, Katica Biljakoviæ) http://www.indecs.eu/2008/indecs2008-pp28-36.pdf

Category:

Education

Tags:

• islam
• muslim
• science
• threat
• thunderf00t
• scientific
• output
• publications
• papers
• GDP
• research
• statistics
• stats
• correlation
• causation
• analysis
• education
• islamophobia
• islamophobic
• racist
• racism

[pyrrho314]

I wonder if you do the per capita using some sort of standard deviation to find the real per-person distribution... that is a very wealthy ruling class that doesn't actual distribute it's GDP to the populace.

[SkepticalEngineer]

@pyrrho314 That's one hell of an insightful comment. If I understood correctly, you'd exclude the wealthiest x percent from the GDP data, right? It would be very cool, but to find the wealth distributions of so many countries would be too much work for me (lazy bastard). Assuming we could do this, what would your expectation be? My guess is that in the more totalitarian regimes, the ruling class would have a smaller contribution to output.

PS Great videos, you're so undersubscribed...

[christo930]

@Marduniya I think it's a reasonable question, though i don't really remember what was in the video. A people who have to devote a lot of their time to religion and who exclude 1/2 their workforce from working just might have a low GDP.

[Marduniya]

@christo930 Lol, seriously?

[TheHorta]

This just seems like, to put it bluntly and very UN-scientifically, you are still saying the Islamic world is still a steaming dung heap when it comes to contributions to civilization, but it doesn't stink quite as badly as Thunderf00t makes out.

We can add to this the lack of social advancement (if not outright barbarism) and the fact that many OIC nations have HUGE monetary resources at their disposal and have a very high per capita income as a result, yet STILL live in the Dark Ages.

[christo930]

How do you know that Islam isn't the cause of the low GDP?

[williamcardno]

Hardly anyone mentions Turkey, but it's what I see when I hear about an "Islamic Country".

I do have one problem with your research, however. It neglects that the countries who are lagging that soley produce oil (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc) actually have a remarkably poor population in terms of wealth. This is because the ruling class tends to hold on to most of the GDP, and thus I think we should be seeing that they are lagging behind due to average income or wealth per person.

[jrlmenezes1]

Excellent video, good work

[Wrath0fKhan]

Study finds young, devout Muslims in Germany more prone to violence (DW)

dw-world(.)de/dw/article/0,,56­55554,00(.)html

bit(.)ly/bd7K8w

"A study conducted by the German authorities has found that the more devout young Muslims become, the more prone to violence they get. The study says the phenomenon is not due to Islam itself, but to the way it is taught."

How "it" is taught... Indeed... LOL