The MSS - 13 November 2011 - Part 4 - belief, lies and miracles

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• Category

  Education

[viicISrotcib]

Aron puts it better than anyone else.

[mistereveready]

If WLC admitted his god is a horrendous creature then he'd lose more than his argument. He'd lose many book rights and what not. Doesn't matter whether or not he admits his god is a work of fiction, once he concedes he might as well put on his tammy faye makeup and try to ask for forgiveness and hope people will still buy his books.

[TheAmazingMrBruce]

C0nc0rdance's point about apologetics & science made me think of one of those mazes at a restaurant that children draw on. Apologetics is analogously starting from the middle & working to the outside.

[Zimbabwe Zinch]

That's a very good point.

I never thought that conceding an argument could very well put him on the streets.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud You have a point there. There is no guarantee that a theological university would teach science (or intellectual integrity). I do think people make the mistake of thinking science is a democracy, where you can propose whatever the hell you want and get it accepted. He just might believe in God honesty, but the way he defends his beliefs is dishonest. I bet many scientists have urged him to look at well-written papers, but he has refused in order to protect himself.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud Sure, but Newton and Wallis did not live at a time with so information about the natural world. We now have evolution, genetics, cosmology, physics, chemistry, and so forth. To live in such an information-filled world and have the education as WLC does, it is surprising if he really has the beliefs he says. It is one thing to be ignorant and stumble over science in understanding it. It is another to blatantly misrepresent science, straw-manning theories on public forums.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud Actually, I think WLC is a very intelligent person. He is very eloquent, so he must have had an education. When people with an education make ridiculous comments like that, then they are most likely being purposely dishonest. People with an education have authority. The brain-dead public is quick to believe people of authority who support their position. It is for legitimacy. They never analyze the actual argument. That is why belief in God is innately dishonest.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud Exactly. Morality cannot come from God, because it would be one big Might Makes Right argument. If he never changes his mind nor endorses contradictory positions, then he might be moral. Not the case. He orders people to kill in one line and then denounces killing in the other. WLC makes the mistake of ignoring this fact. I refuse to make my morals arbitrary.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud I agree with you there. I get so frustrated when people claim to follow the Bible as the absolute best authority on morals. They don't even know all the things it says.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@jappud Let me clarify. If the God is morally bankrupt and you are not morally bankrupt, then you are being dishonest in your beliefs. You claim to obey everything God says, but you really don't. You just use your own judgment. If so, then you have a useless God that you use only to fit in with others or add imaginary legitimacy to your own beliefs.

[MunkyDrag0n]

The only way one can honestly worship a morally bankrupt god is if one is morally bankrupt.

[Eventsbyresonance]

Like I said, same shit, different pile. They take things out of the bible the same way thing were put there in the first place - based on the ideas they like. It's all man-made. I think I'm probably misunderstanding Cioncordance's comments. Why would he want any religion, regardless of if you can rip out bible pages or not? But history would have been quite different and probably less violent, had the Marionites become dominant instead of the Catholics.