Jeff Durbin debates against the Atheist worldview.

Jeff Durbin debates against the Atheist worldview.

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• Atheist
• God
• Worldview
• apologetics

[MaximumAxiom]

(2)

This also doesn't guarantee that god actually obeys logic because god isn't subservient to it. This also implies that it is possible even in this world that god can both exist and not exist which contradicts all possible arguments in favor of god existing.

Even apologists like William Lane Craig have argued that god is not the foundation for logic because it creates an arbitrary standard for logic. Logic is only useful if it is actually and truly absolute.

[MaximumAxiom]

(1)

If god makes logic work then that means that logic isn't absolute, nor objective (because logic becomes dependent upon god's mind to function). This means that logic doesn't exist in every possible world (because god doesn't exist in every possible world), and contradictions would be actualizable in possible worlds. From those possible worlds god can both exist and not exist, which is an absurdity that develops from god.

[MaximumAxiom]

@jtlbb2

"As an atheist, you can't even provide on objective basis"

This is false actually, the only way to provide an objective basis (through the classical definitions) is through either Deonotology, Consequentialism, or Virtue Ethics. Atheism doesn't necessitate subjectism, but Christianity does.

"you have a worldview"

No, a baby for instance doesn't have a worldview because it really doesn't have a framework of beliefs, and atheism isn't a framework (though Naturalism is).

[MaximumAxiom]

"No reason to assume induction"

Like deduction, this is no less a problem for the theist than the atheist. We cannot use deduction to prove induction, so we are left with induction. If we try and apply induction to induction then it is circular. Therefore we cannot justify induction on either side. Instead we should NOT be hyperskeptics and just accept that induction works, and there is no way to demonstrate it to be false (because that would require induction and thus be self-defeating).

[MaximumAxiom]

Atheism isn't a worldview. This is a minor point, but a little annoying. Atheism doesn't construct a frame work of beliefs, and doesn't really necessitate any other belief unlike Christianity which assumes many. Naturalism is the most common worldview that atheists tend to hold to, and this does construct a framework for atheists to form several other beliefs.

[MaximumAxiom]

"How does your worldview account for logic"

Well there is really only one way to account for logic, and that is by axiom. All arguments must assume logic so we cannot argue that the laws of logic are true (circular) or false (self-refuting). Therefore the only way we can come to the belief that laws of logic are true is by assuming them as the starting point for everything else. Theists have no other way of knowing things beyond logic (just like the atheist), so theists are in the same position.

[jtlbb2]

@bensil34: That argument you proposed was simply a straw-man to the biblical God. But I know atheists love tearing down straw-men. Your posts have demonstrated that (if you deny the biblical God) morality is just opinions; and apparently you have a problem if anyone else's opinions don't conform to your own. Without the biblical God, there is no rational, objective basis for morality. Apparently you don't think it is wrong to lie, because you told me you were finished and yet here you are.

[bensil34]

@jtlbb2 Of course, nothing is applicable to your perfect, unassailable god. What was I thinking? Why wouldn't I want to be judged by standards I can't possibly live up to? Since I don't accept (and you have no evidence for) the existence of such a being, I do not care what god's standard is. So, I willingly commit the one sin for which there is no redemption: I renounce the holy spirit. (Not that there is one.) There, we're done. I do not suffer fools gladly. Or any longer.

[jtlbb2]

@bensil34 This dilemma isn't applicable to the biblical God. Because morality stems from the biblical God's unchanging nature, not just because He happens to arbitrarily think something is right or wrong. Because God cannot act inconsistently with His nature, He cannot sin so His standards are objective. And we, as mere creatures, *should* care what God's standard is, as there is no higher standard. If we don't care, then God will judge us for our sin according to His standards.

[bensil34]

@jtlbb2 Plato's Euthyphro Dilemma. Look it up.