The Doctrine of Sola Fide and James 2:14-26, Pt. 1

These verses (James 2:14-26) have been the occasion of much controversy. Martin Luther was so disturbed at how they conflicted with his understanding of Romans and Galatians that he regarded James with contempt and called the epistle a right strawy one. Others, in an attempt to reconcile James with their understanding of Romans and Galatians have come up with some ingenious ways to do this. Believing that Paul teaches that faith alone without any obedience to Jesus is all that is required for justification, and knowing that James teaches faith alone is dead in itself (vs 17), is barren (vs. 20) and is dead (vs 26); knowing that James teaches that faith without works cannot save (vs. 14) they contend that James is speaking about a pretended faith, while Paul speaks about a faith that is genuine. Others say that James and Paul are speaking about different kinds of justification. While Paul is speaking about justification before God, James is speaking about a justification before men. Then there are those who say that it is a mixture of both of these things. However, the difference between Paul and James is not about what they mean by faith and saved and justified, their difference lies in how they use th word works. While Paul speaks of works in which one may glory in or boast of, and also about works which nullify grace, James speaks of works which quickens faith and perfects it.

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[abukid]

@Papasmurph4 "What is the purpose of water baptism"

Public proclamation of acceptance to the church. Water has no power to cleanse people's sin. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can cleanse sins. Once God sees the real heart of a person covered by His Son's blood. Then, He send the Holy Spirit to baptized that person.

[Papasmurph4]

@abukid You are reading things into the passage that aren't there.How do you know that she is saved? Does the text say that she believed in Jesus or repented of sin? Here are three questions for you: 1) Give the passage where Jesus commanded anyone to be baptized in the Spirit. 2) Did Jesus command anyone to be baptized in water and 3) What is the purpose of water baptism, according to the scriptures.

[abukid]

@Papasmurph4 Ok, you don't like what if. How about the adulterer woman that was thrown in front of Jesus Christ. At what point she was saved? Jesus never gave her water baptism. You mean if she tripped on her way home and dies. She is not saved even though she is forgiven. I rather believed in being baptised in Holy Spirit. John said he will baptized in water but a greater one will come and will baptized in the Spirit.

[Papasmurph4]

@abukid you at least got the main point of my foolish question. Our task is the proclaim the message of Jesus as it was revealed by the apostles. We have no right to change the message based on "what if ...?" That's what you were asking me to do with your question. Jesus says, that the believer who shall be saved is the baptized believer, no "what if" about it. This is what I believe and this is what I teach, even in the desert. By the way, were was the Eunuch when Philip baptized him?

[Papasmurph4]

@Papasmurph4 In response to my question, you wrote: You sound more like a UNIVERSALIST, the Roman Universal-ist Church..LOL.. Let say the unbeliever is "an honest and good heart" atheist. What do you think?

John 14:6 Jesus told him,“I am the way,the truth,and the life.No one can come to the Father except through me

My answer is no.

[Papasmurph4]

@abukid You probably need to ask a Catholic this question.

Here are two statements: 1. He who has believed and has not been baptized shall be saved? 2. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved? Now, which of these two statements were said by Jesus? Which of them is the truth. Finally, which one do you believe?

[abukid]

@Papasmurph4 "What if an unbeliever with "an honest and good heart" (Lk 8:15) was on his way to hear Jesus for the first time, but tripped and hit his head on a rock, then died. Is this person saved?"

You sound more like a UNIVERSALIST, the Roman Universal-ist Church..LOL.. Let say the unbeliever is "an honest and good heart" atheist. What do you think?

John 14:6 Jesus told him,“I am the way,the truth,and the life.No one can come to the Father except through me

My answer is no.

[Papasmurph4]

@abukid What if an unbeliever with "an honest and good heart" (Lk 8:15) was on his way to hear Jesus for the first time, but tripped and hit his head on a rock, then died. Is this person saved? If you say "Yes," then don't you have to standards? Isn't this silly questions, abukid? Here is what I think, the person who asks, "what if" in an attempt to get escape what the scriptures teach regarding water is nothing less than an unbeliever.

[abukid]

@Papasmurph4 One more thing. Do Catholic church believe a person cannot be saved through radio, tv, internet or satellite?

[abukid]

@Papasmurph4 "The apostles were initially forgiven of their sins (saved) when they, as penitent believers were baptized by John. When John later told them that Jesus is the Messiah, the apostles continued to be justified as they followed (obeyed) Him (John 3:36; 12:26)"

What if one of the apostles believed Jesus is the Messiah. On the way to the river. He tripped and hit his head on a rock, then died. Is that person saved? If you say 'yes'. Then, why do you have two standards?