West Michigan reacts to smoking ban

The Michigan Legislature has finished passing a smoking ban that exempts three Detroit casinos that compete with tribal casinos not affected by the ban.

The Democrat-led House passed the ban by a 75-30 vote Thursday. It mirrors a version passed by the Republican-led Senate earlier in the day.

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[hilzor]

You seem to be under the (false) assumption that because proposals 1-4 may have had loose democratic representation, that the other proposals achieving the same effect ALL were a representation of the majority. It's a logical fallacy, and an ignorant one.

Either way, it wouldn't matter what the majority voted, because this is a matter of removing the civil rights of bar owners and bar patrons.

[hilzor]

Are you referring to the polls that take place before or after the ban?

Proposals usually get on the ballot by acquiring a minimum number of required signatures (usually paid for by lobbying money in the first place). Private interest groups usually go around and offer up money for workers in order to gather up the required signatures for the ballot proposals (which are usually in the 10s of thousands).

So what exactly, is your point?

[320ibeamer]

they just passed a smoking ban in front of the library where i live. yup, communism.

[DancingTigerBait]

hilzor--

Of those states that DID allow a vote, it was very corrupt. For example, the law passed in OH was voted to have certain exemptions, but the legislators didn't allow that. Also, the petition used to get the vote on the ballot was evidently illegitimate. Soooo...even those few states that did have a vote...um, not really.

FYI: Enforcement has proved to be very expensive and illegally fell on proprietors rather than on actual law enforcement--OH just had a ruling on that in court.

[michiganriverman]

I guess you have never read the polls that have been taken on the issue, or you just choose to ignore them.

If, as you claim, "it wouldn't matter if the majority wanted this anyway", please explain how the proposals got on the ballots in those states, the people voted for them, they became the law, and remain that way.

Stay in your little world of denial, you appear to be very comfortable there.

[hilzor]

There is no "majority" here, because no one has ever taken into account what the majority wanted, given that only 4 states even put this up to a vote.

And, it wouldn't matter if the majority wanted this anyway, because it's still a violation of personal liberty and the ability of individuals to make self-regulating choices regarding their own health.

[michiganriverman]

Deny it all you want to, but the politicians finally listened to what the majority of the people want. The stranglehold that the tobacco lobbyists have held on the govt. for decades is finally loosening. Maybe they don't throw as much cash at the politicians as they used to, or maybe some politicians have actually sprouted a pair of balls and stood up to them, and said "No, you aren't getting everything you want anymore".

[hilzor]

I'm illustrating that this is not about the "will of the people", but the "will of the politicians".

I only complain about laws passed by the government that infringe upon the civil rights of others, as this smoking ban has.

[michiganriverman]

"No, simply pointing out the stupidity in your arguments by selectively focusing on only the lobbying groups that oppose your views."

Explain to me how that's different from what YOU'RE doing.

Like it or not, the govt. passed these laws because they KNEW that's what the majority of the people wanted to happen. When laws are passed by the govt. that you approve of, I'll bet you aren't whining that they weren't put to a vote!

[hilzor]

No, simply pointing out the stupidity in your arguments by selectively focusing on only the lobbying groups that oppose your views.

You said that this is "what the people want", yet conveniently forget that only 4 states put this to a vote (16%). Meanwhile, the anti-smoking campaigns essentially forced legislation into place that taxed and put restrictions on legitimate, small businesses and individuals.

Democracy in action, right?