Silver vs Rapier

Was Silver right about the rapier?

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• WMA
• rapier
• sword
• George
• Silver

[mechupanlamonda]

@LutzBrux1 indeed the rapier and later the smallsword were predominant in the duels. but, they were only limited to this area. as the technology advanced and the warfare changed, armingswords, longswords,etc. were not used anymore. but that does not necesarily mean silver was wrong. his teachings were not only focused on duels, but they were also aplicable for war, for melee in battle.

[Forthepaycheck88]

Rapier design did in fact constantly change. It was a newfangled concept, attempting to fulfill a need. However, those that made them had no clue how to use them, and relied on "user feedback". Swordsmen might come back and say "ya know, Steve, I bet i could REALLY kick ass if this joker was lighter (shorter, heavier, longer, sharper... pick your adjective)... do it again a little (adjective)er". It boiled down to personal preference.

[wiskadjak]

Currently I fence rapier in the SCA. The practice weapon I use is set up to simulate both point & edge. For the sake of safety only draw cuts are allowed. This is because a pecussive cut, even from a light sport sabre, really hurts. Even a "light" weapon such as a rapier is heavy enough & sharp enough to do serious harm to an unarmoured opponent. To be sure its not a battlefield weapon but I feel it fulfills its intended purpose as a civilian weapon of self defense.

[kozushi]

Silver suggests you parry the rapier to your right and use a passing step to get in close to the rapierist. You can use either a forehand ward or the hanging guard (gardant) to initiate the parry.

The rapier did not take over in Europe. On the battlefield, cutting swords predominated. The thrusting swords were worn in civilian circumstance because they were light. Zach Wylde in the 18th Century also says the broadsword beats the smallsword, and this is because it has more options available to it

[LutzBrux1]

PS: But one can clearly understand Silver's point of view. He had taught sword all his life, and along came those bloody foreigners with their flimsy rapiers and their mediterranean mannierisms. And yes, the rapier fencing was developping and constantly changing. But it was in the end more efficient....

[LutzBrux1]

Silver was clearly proven wrong by history insofar as the whole of Europe switched first to cut-and-thrust rapier, then to thrust rapier and then to the epee (is that what you call it in English?). The only notable exception being the British Isles, where the sword stayed a bit longer a la mode. But if the whole of Europe changed their mind around 1600, that speaks a clear language. And at that time, it was not a matter of taste or opinion, but one of survival.

[SquallLeonhart86]

I think Silver's main complaint about rapier schools were the lessons were always changing, there was never a set art to it. Because of this he kept seeing and hearing of rapier people killing both of each other or seriously harming both in a duel. Silver set out to basically make a simple art that didnt' really need any additional steps and daily lessons as the Italians needed at the time due to the rapidly changing blade types and lengths (another of Silver's major complaints.)

[LokitheCajun]

@karikaalacholan Hmm, I wasn't arguing for the Rapier, and I see your point. The video's quality is good, but it can't really sway the opinion of 'non-rapierists'.... No pun intended. I'm no master swordsman, but it stands to reason that a dozen swordsmen skilled in the opposing techniques square off. The side with the greater average of victories should be judged as the 'better' technique.

[karikaalacholan]

@LokitheCajun These people are fighting like rapier versus rapier except the sword wielding guy uses cutting motions.The sword guy is simply standing in front of the rapier swordsmen which is not at all what George Silver has mentioned.By fighting like this, the rapier guy has the definite advantage.Read my earlier comments.

[LokitheCajun]

I believe we can agree to have the proper respect for the rapier. Yet, in true close contact war, the overpowering weight and mass of most other swords really have to be our choice. Please, if anyone disagrees please respond. I'd love to have a friendly little debate on the issue.