Alan Watts - The Ceramic and the Fully Automatic

Alan Watts explains the difference between the ceramic (theist) and fully automatic (atheist) views of the world and gives an alternative to both.

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[0pt]

@funningincircles, with that kind of attachment to yourself or "I", you will never agree with any of these points. You have to let go to truly understand, it's hard but you'll end up being MUCH happier the better you understand the point.. remember, we are all just ONE big happening!

please read up on "the ego" to understand more

[semihibernation]

@funningincircles you miss the point. you're identifying with the wave as yourself when you;re actually the ocean

[Jotto999]

@SOLIDSNAKEz28 "Thoughts themselves are not physical."

And how do you support this assertion? Especially since we already have supported models that go against that completely?

Imagining a red coke can would require activity in the visual cortex as well as in the prefrontal cortex. Oh why am I even bothering? GO LOOK IT UP!

[SOLIDSNAKEz28]

@Jotto999 "We can observe neurons firing in accordance with what is going on..."

You fail to realize that Neurons are part of the physical BRAIN. Not the Mind. Neurons are NOT thoughts. Thoughts themselves are not physical. When you think of an object, for instance, a bright red Coke-cola can, what is it that's creating that image other than your own free will?

[Jotto999]

@SOLIDSNAKEz28 Yes thoughts are physical, you have new-age delusions about the mind that are obsolete. We can observe neurons firing in accordance with what is going on. Your opinion on this matter is simply out of date and contradicted by the facts.

[SOLIDSNAKEz28]

@Jotto999 The mind and the Brain are two completely different things, my friend. Your brain is simply the interface between the mind and the physical body, in very much the same way that the UPC of a computer is the interface between the UN-decoded WiFi internet and the actual computer itself. The point I'm trying to make is that, the mind is not physical. If you picture an object in you're mind, you'll never be able to find it by dissecting the brain, you're thoughts are not physical.

[DemonHermit]

@Jotto999 If you look at it narrowly and on the surface, sure we are just in our skin.

Lets look at it in a broader sense. Our bodies are constantly relying on our environments to sustain existance. We need oxygen, food, a planet with a sufficient atmosphere, a sun to keep us in orbit, etc. We rely on the rest of the universe to exist just like our own beating heart. The line we draw seperating us from the universe is just as imaginary as the lines we draw seperating the countries.

[Jotto999]

@DemonHermit He said that nonsense about "not being only inside your skin". We are. Our bodies may be part of the universe, sure. But the specific thing that constitutes your mind, your brain, is in fact different from the rest of the universe in an important way. Specifically, you are self-aware but a rock is not. What he said sounded very new-age, pseudosciency.

[DemonHermit]

@funningincircles "Pretending that this is not a loss is a lie."

No, pretending that matter in a certain shape (a human) is somehow more special than another shape is a lie. When you die, in the eyes of the universe, nothing is lost. All the matter is still there, it is just a change in form. Yes the mind dies, but the illusion that all you are a seperate mind is what we call the ego. Your ego is the only thing that fears death and thinks it is a loss.

You were dead before you were born.

[DemonHermit]

@Jotto999 Of course when you kill a part of the brain you kill a part of the mind. He's not arguing that the mind is eternal. All Watts is arguing that we are not seperate from the universe.

Look at it this way, when exactly did the Big Bang end? 1 second after it exploded? 5 seconds, 10 years? The answer is the big bang hasn't ended yet. It's still happening, and we are made of the stuff of the big bang, we are the big bang happening. Being a seperate "result" is just a concept.

[ZEDZOR2]

@funningincircles Build a pyramid if u must.

[ZEDZOR2]

@Jotto999 huh!