Noam Chomsky-Discussion with Libertarian Socialists (2/4)

During his visit to Ireland to give three other lectures on various topics at the University of Dublin and with Amnesty International Noam Chomsky gave this little known discussion with a Libertarian Socialist group. He discusses George Orwell and the Spanish Civil war and Orwell's sympathy with Libertarian Socialism and then goes on to talk about the Vietnam War

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• Socialism
• Spanish
• Civil
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[elsargente]

LIBERTARIAN: one who believes in freedom of action and thought; one who believes in free will.

SOCIALISM: a social system in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods.

LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISM: a social system which believes in freedom of action and thought and free will, in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods.

[Peralon]

Why so? It's Socialism not Stalinism. That is, socialism in the elementary sense of sharing basic commodities, and libertarian in the tradition of classical liberalism -extending to modern industrial civilisation- (that is, individual freedom, minimal state intervention plus democratic organisation from below). Where's the oxymoron?

[UtopiaMinor666]

It seems like anyone who finds the title Libertarian Socialist as a misnomer, either doesnt know what a libertarian is, or they understand socialism to be what most American's have heard it to be, but clearly, not what it is.

[elsargente]

@altaris2011

he would gain some economic power (the power to sell tomatoes), not political power. but the economic power he would gain from this would not have any negative effect on anyone unless he was exploiting the fruits of someone elses labor.

[altaris2011]

@elsargente if an individual decided to grow and sell tomatoes, becoming a producer, would him or her automatically obtain political power? If producers possess political power, meaning the geographical monopoly on the legitimate use of force, wouldn't this undermine the concept of freedom. I guess that depends on what you mean by political power. Also, I am unconvinced that a libertarian socialist system can be efficient in the distribution of goods given that there is no free market.

[lqacwaz1]

the audio is poor - it took me a *lot* of effort to understand ...

[JimmyeDallas]

Rand wrote about Objectivism (Selfish Capitalism), which couldn't contrast Libertarian belief more than any other ideology.

[dontmakeuspay]

you guys should look at the petition at dontmakeuspay ! dont let the consumers foot the bill!

[fomastephanovitch]

That does not draw away from the fact that these right wing libertarians are probably just a different type of progressive (progressive being those who rejects all the nonsensical notions of kings, churches and patriotism as universal values). I would consider a libertarian to be a person who does not believe in coercion. What are now called liberals are those who believe in manipulating the economic functions of the state; they sound nothing like Déjacque or Proudhon and a lot like Fourier.

[DANxCHORIN]

The term 'libertarian' was coined by Joseph Déjacque, a French anarchist communist. If the term conveys that particular image to you, it is because the meaning of the term has been hi-jacked by right wingers.

[fomastephanovitch]

That's not correct surely.

Libertarianism has become a generic term in the second half of the twentieth century. I think if you were asked to describe a libertarian he'd be carrying a gun and a copy of Atlas Shrugged while picking up empty beer cans in New Hampshire.

[UcanbeGOD]

So the actions of government from the bailouts to public education and so on are simply fascist? I am still in the process of learning this shit so.....