MONKEYS WITH TYPEWRITERS THEOREM - could life happen by chance?

The famous "Monkeys With Typewriters" theorem has been cited for years as an example of how given enough time, chance events could produce the first living cell. Professor Gerald Schroeder does the math. Information was taken from Antony Flew's 2007 book, There Is A God

Category:

Education

Tags:

• monkey with typewriters
• evolution
• spontaneous life
• creationism
• intelligent design

[economicfreedom8591]

"Pre-life chemical reactions" are still organic chemical reactions. Even those who believe in abiogenesis don't claim that the laws of chemistry were different long ago from what they are today. The known laws of chemistry show organic reactions to be reversible: reactants-to-products; products-to-reactants. To show this by analogy with monkeys and typewriters requires a typewriter that untypes letters as they are typed. Even with infinite time, sonnets could never appear by this method.

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello economicfreedom8591-

Thank you for your posts. They are a good explanation of how each letter, space or punctuation mark of the sonnet represents far more than just a one in 28 or so chance. Unlike evolution theories that build up, each letter, space or punctuation mark must relate to all other letters, spaces and punctuation marks in exact order, causing probability numbers so high as to be impossible. A 48 character sentence is impossible with the limit of matter in the cosmos.

[economicfreedom8591]

The odds are even worse for the monkeys. Organic reactions at the base of life, when left to themselves, are all REVERSIBLE (reactants-to-products; then products-back-to-reactants; ad infinitum, until equilibrium is reached). The monkey-typewriter analogy only shows IRREVERSIBLE reactions. To make the analogy relevant to biology, the monkeys must use a typewriter that could literally "untype" each letter right after it was typed, until equilibrium was reached between typing and untyping.

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello economicfreedom8591-

Thank you for your comment. Protocell theories are based on pre-life chemical reactions, but most people who comment on this video probably will not understand your post because they automatically use an evolution paradigm. For their sake let me say that the monkeys with typewriter analogy in this video demonstrates pre-life probabilities. Biology is a natural science concerned with the study of life and living organisms, so this video is not concerned with biology.

[economicfreedom8591]

Greetings! Organic chemistry existed before life, and organic chemical reactions are reversible. To accurately show reversible organic reactions requires the following analogy: monkey brain causes nerve impulse, causes finger flex, causes hitting of key, causes letter on paper; THEN letter untypes itself, finger flexes in opposite direction, nerve impulse travels back up arm, back into brain of monkey. That's an accurate analogy of a reversible organic reaction by a monkey and a typewriter.

[economicfreedom8591]

In biology, what prevents the whole system from "untyping", biologically speaking, is a "rectifier system" that keeps reactions moving in one direction. The rectifier is INFORMATION encoded as a linguistic sequence in the DNA molecule, and most importantly taking the form of enzymes that not only cause organic reactions to occur faster than they normally would, but they do so IN ONE DIRECTION, preventing the reaction from reversing itself, which they would normally do.

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello TennisAnnalyst-

Thank you for the civil conversation. Peace. Patrick

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello TennisAnnalyst -

Dawkins believes in non-living cosmos evolution. He thinks it might happen in black holes that daughter cosmos are born from mother cosmos. Since ten to the 229th power is the probability of our cosmos happening by chance, there should be 10 to the 229th power cosmos that don't support life. If you understand large numbers, you realize this is the biggest flying spaghetti monster of them all. A more logical theory is the Star Wars theory - life exists in all matter.

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello TennisAnnalyst -

The theorist who said the chance of the laws and constants of our cosmos coming from a single Big Bang is one in ten the 229th power is Lee Smolin. There are just ten to the 80th power protons, neutrons and electrons in our cosmos. In order to understand why that is significant to this discussion, there are some great astrobiology books listed at f i r s t l i v i n g c e l l . c o m. A non sequitur can be a "logical fallacy". For example. "non life evolves like life".

[patrickmcintyre]

Hello TennisAnnalyst-

The ultimate non sequitur on page 139 of the God delusion: "although Darwinism is not directly related to the inanimate world - cosmology, for example - it raises our consciousness in areas outside its original territory of biology." The only way a living process can be applied to a theory of how non life became life is by a non sequiter. Dawkins favorite theorist puts the chance of the laws and constants of our cosmos happening by chance at one in 10 to the 229 power.