William Lane Craig vs Theodore Drange (HQ) 5/11

A debate at the University of Illinois between Professors William Lane Craig and Theodore Drange on the question of God's existence

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• William
• Lane
• Craig
• Theodore
• Drange
• Atheist
• Theism
• Does
• God
• Exist

[3superdogs]

very well put by Craig

[Saibomb]

craig owns

[REDRAGON12345]

Its always interesting to see how little atheist know about orthodox Christianity or even the Bible itself.

[aschaevitz]

@3superdogs @Saibomb

rebuttal

1. it is assumed that god is all loving of the life he created. loving beings prevent evil if it is their power. god is all powerful. therefore, he would have prevented evil, if he existed.

2. If god is all powerful, he could have done whatever he wanted. therefore, he could have given the idea to all humans that he existed.

3. you say it is impossible to have a timeless universe, yet a god can be timeless and defy that infinity is nonexistent. wut?

[MrLittleOrno]

Maybe God can't make you love Him but He can send you to Hell if you don't. Would you want God as a role-model for your children?

[AgeOfReasonXXI]

"Certainly there's NO 'BEFORE' prior to the beginning of time, that would be SELF-CONTRADICTORY, but the Universe does come into existence in the sense that it comes to exist at t=0, and it did not exist BEFORE that!"

Billy LAME Craig, you can't even utter a single sentence without contradicting yourself, can you? what a fucking moron.

[AgeOfReasonXXI]

@6thwing "No, silly, he's saving us from ourselves"

I guess if a person is psychopath or a sociopath that argument would make sense. But I'm not one, so I don't need to be "saved from myself". If you need to be saved from yourself, fine, just don't be so presumptuous as to think that everyone is like you. Those who are healthy don't need a doctor, you know, only those who are sick. I don't need your doctor, nor his message/cure. save it for yourself, Christian

[6thwing]

@setmedic No, silly, he's saving us from ourselves. And the "pain staking effort and billions of years" argument you have is invalid. God is both Timeless and Omnipotent. Time is irrelevent to God -- it means nothing. Billions of years and fractions of nanoseconds are one in the same to him, nothing. God is all-powerful. Pain-staking effort means nothing to Him. Picking up a sheet of paper and crafting the Universe are one in the same to him.

The problem that exists is because of Volition.

[setmedic]

From whom is god supposedly saving us from? Himself? The idea that god would through such pain staking effort and billions of years of evolution just to put us on this planet to test us is ridiculous. And the idea that unless we believe the most absurd bullshit, we won't be saved. Please......

[HonestTechnoAtheist]

@ohconservativeme I never said that you or Craig said that, but other theists have. Reducing suffering would in no way affect free will. For example to solve the problem of starving people everywhere, all he has to do is magically create food for them. Same with people who lose loved ones. Just ressurect them. If you want to say that that would take away free will please consider that he already did those things in scripture. Didn't it take away free will then? He even appeared to people.

[ohconservativeme]

@HonestTechnoAtheist

"I know nothing more circular then theistic logic.", "A circular argument from theists goes like this: we exist because..."1)I nor Mr. Craig said that. 2) so you don't deny that your argument was circular, you just told me what circular logic is, and you had to make one up. "The fact is..."-oh, you know something about God that I don't? "...god would try and reduce or fully stop suffering... Not to stop free will. That entire sentence is a paradox.