JUDGE IT YOURSELF

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[zorin85]

@jef: Philippians 2:6-8 has been MISTRANSLATED in many versions, but properly rendered, verse 6 says that Christ “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.”

Jesus Christ was highly exalted by God because he did not seek equality with God like Lucifer had many years earlier. The statement makes NO sense at all if Christ were God, because then Christ would have been praised for not seeking equality with himself.

[zorin85]

@jef: Read again Heb 5:7 which PLAINLY CONTRADICTS Trinity.

"While Jesus was here on earth, he offered prayers and pleadings, with a loud cry and tears, to the one who could rescue him from death. And God heard his prayers because of his deep reverence for God."

He offered prayers and pleadings to whom? To himself? Does that make healthy sense?

If Jesus is God, why does it say God heard his prayers? Does God say prayers to himself? Are u saying that when Jesus became man, he ceased to be God?

[zorin85]

@jef: It was clear that Jesus did NOT consider himself equal with the Father. In John 5:19, he said, “The Son can do NOTHING by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing” (c.f. v. 30 and John 8:28 and 12:49).

Jesus can do NOTHING by himself? Is that how God speaks? Didn't Jesus say "all things are possible with God."? Why was it not possible for him?

... he can only do what he sees his Father doing? How could he be God when he is so LIMITED in his thoughts & actions?

[zorin85]

@jef: Are you insinuating that God is so ignorant & limited in knowledge that needs to become human to experience "how fragile our bodies were & death + pain was now very REAL"? How could such a God be regarded as being Omniscient & All Knowing? Allah, the One True God of Jesus has no need to assume the form of His creation to understand the vicissitudes of life as He knows what He has created & is All Aware.

To claim that God became a man or woman is PAGAN as found in the mystery religions.

[zorin85]

@jef: John 14:26 does NOT prove the Trinity as it does NOT say there is One God in 3 person. In fact, in verse 28, Jesus confesses "the Father is GREATER than" himself. In direct CONTRAST to these clear words from Jesus, the orthodox formula of the Trinity says that the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” Which means Jesus NEITHER preached NOR believed in the Trinity. His own words are pretty clear on this.

Unlike you, Jesus NEVER attempted to hide behind Isaiah or Titus on this point.

[zorin85]

@jef: -QUOTE- Sorry, cant ignore the insurmountable evidence HOLY TRINITY exists. Even Islam PROVES TRINITIES existence! Father = allah, HS = Muhammad & Eesa (Isa) = Jesus. -UNQUOTE-

If there is insurmountable evidence HOLY TRINITY exists, why has it been OPPOSED by many Christian individuals & churches for the past 2000 years? Why do modern-day theologians like the Catholic scholar Dr. Hans Kung DISPUTE the validity of that doctrine?

Father = allah, HS = Muhammad & Eesa (Isa) = Jesus???

[zorin85]

@jef: If Trinity is your concept of God, why was it that NO one ever prayed to the Trinity in your Bible?

Christ said his doctrine was NOT his own. John 7:16: “My teaching is not my own. It comes from Him who sent me.” Christ could not have said this if he were God because the doctrine would have been his.

Jesus and God have SEPARATE wills. Luke 22:42: “not my will but yours be done” (c.f. John 5:30).

Now, don't start looking for your favourite verses in Isaiah & Titus to hide under.