The Glory of God in the Cross - John Piper

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by His grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by His blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over former sins. It was to show His righteousness at the present time, so that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. " - Romans 3:21-26


Excerpt from John Piper's message, "God's Passion for His Glory"
You can watch the entire message here: http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/gods-passion-...

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[Masaries1234]

I think that free-will is completely absent just not without external influences. We are influenced every day but there is some sense of consent to those wants. @Mr.Beautifulba1 If you find the Truth but still die, there was no real reason to find. Your plight would be the same as those who are ignorant. I believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that He is just. His integrity is something that I value as evidence for His truth.

[Dadutta]

@MrBeautifulba1 And peace to you as well.

[MrBeautifulba1]

@Dadutta I don't believe in the authority of the bible. I would suggest youtubing Christopher Hitchens: Christianity is immoral. That would explain my point much better than I can right now. I do have to go but would like to continue this later. The goal of the debate is to find the truth. Peace.

[Dadutta]

@MrBeautifulba1 You didn't name-call, I was just setting a parameter. Personally, I don't believe in eternal hell. I guess I should repeat that in order to make any of my arguments for predestination, assuming that's the topic that interests you, I will have to refer to the Bible - would you find this convincing ?

If not, then what should I consider the goal of the debate ?

[MrBeautifulba1]

@Dadutta I don't remember name calling. If I did I apologize. The point of the debate is that I want to discover what is true and real. I don't agree with teaching children that a god of love will send them to hell for eternity if they don't adhere to the "correct" version of the bible. This belief is damaging in my opinion.

[Dadutta]

@MrBeautifulba1 Ok I will enter into a discussion with you if you are indeed honest and refrain from name-calling. So I can direct you to an article answering these questions better than myself, or I can take a stab at something specifc. The thing is, I doesn't appear you're a bible-believers, though perhaps I'm mistaken --- so if I were to prove predestination, or prove evidence, it would have to be from the bible (which, if you don't believe in it, makes me wonder what is goal of the debate)

[MrBeautifulba1]

@Dadutta So then, "god" predestined you to have to deal with these issues on a format known as youtube. These videos posted on youtube are for anyone to watch and comment upon. I don't understand why you would have a problem with this, since your "god" predestined you to be apart of these conversations."God" obviously wants you to be apart of this right ? Why is "god" making you read these words ? Is it your choice or "his" ?

[Dadutta]

@MrBeautifulba1 this video is for bible-believers; what you're doing spamming this page is beyond me. show some decency.

[Dadutta]

@MrBeautifulba1 the exact opposite - God is the one who predesitnes everything. In the free will scenario, man is the deified creation which causes good and evil and creates by its power - in the predestination scenario, God is fully sovereign, doing everything.

[MrBeautifulba1]

@Dadutta If free will is an illusion then that means that your "god" is the one who is causing me to type the following words that you now have NO CHOICE but to read. "god" and belief are only projections of our own mind. The "gods" that we follow are created by our hopes and fears, by our desire for inward security and reassurance: With the worship of authority there comes submission to an illusion. The "god" of the bible is that illusion. To find "god" you must drop your concept of "god".