Sabre Fencing: refereeing difference between US and world

http://www.fencingvideos.net

This is a sabre action that is often annoying to fencers because it seems to punish the person making a correct attack and reward the fencer making the larger preparation.

I don't have an endless database of similar touches or a lot of time to go through videos and look for them, so perhaps better examples could've been chosen. These were easily accessible to me, but feel free to point out other cases of this situation.

Also, as the video says, I'm not attempting to pick on any of the fencers or referees; just trying to help the US team be better prepared.

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• fencing
• sabre
• refereeing
• referee
• touch
• call
• point

[PodzniakovisElite]

At 2:30 I see, attack no from the left, no riposte from the right fencer who keeps moving backwards with small steps, so the left reprises. The ref even does a sort of "riposte no," motion to indicate it.

[FencingVideosNet]

@PodzniakovisElite I think he's spinning his hand around to indicate preparation, but it could very easily be "lack of attack," as you pointed out. Either way, the point is that the fencer on the left starts attacking first, which is something that often gets ignored in the top levels of refereeing at US tournaments.

[FENCINGNEEDSRULES]

Very perceptive of you. Nice video.

Well, this is just because attack begins at the arm extension. Moreover no matter if you go forward or backward.

"The attack is the initial offensive action made by extending the arm and

continuously threatening the opponent’s target, PRECEDING the launching of the lunge or flèche"

International rules book

no arm extension or advance in line implices no attack.

[Obnotikus]

sad if refs are tricked by preparation. i dont know if it works differently in fencing but by determining who got the hit in first i was right without explanation each time

[Davidlowtemperature]

This video was actually very helpful for me regarding how to watch a sabre match, particularly the point about the footwork. That said, I'm curious about that last clip (at 2:54), it looks like the fencer on the right has his feet planted and sticks out his blade for a counter. Is that what you are referring to Dranik?

[dranikdoomwarder]

especially with the first and third touches in the US match, all ben is trying to do is throw out his hand in a fast counterattack. that's why the ref calls it the other guy's attack. this is consistent with the world cup calls. for me the US ref is 100% right and the videos of the world cup do not exactly match up to what is going on

[timmoorehouse]

There are WC refs who would call those touches in the USA match the same and others the opposite way.  The ref in that match calls the touches the same way both times and throughout the match. Chk out some of the other touches. You can't watch touches from a match in isolation. The calls seem to change each season at World level also. This season is already diff. than last I'd say the problem (with some) US refs or just strong vs. weak refs is that they call the middle inconsistently