Naomi Klein - Disaster Capitalism

I took her argument as follows:

"As my hero Friedman said, real change happens only during crises. Therefore, we must be ready with free-market ideas when disaster strikes, so that all the statist solutions get pushed aside and the free market has a chance to prove itself."

But, she certainly does NOT agree with that synopsis. Her criticism of Bush is a clue, but even that doesn't mark her as anti-capitalist.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Mrcropper
• naomi
• Klein
• disaster
• capitalism

[warchild81]

Naomi Klein a big leftist in Canada

[Pieniadzo]

Chicago School of economics is bullshit in contrary to Austrian School, but we have to agree with this Milton Friedman quote. he indicates in his essay Tyranny of Status Quo, that changes have to be done quickly, for in other way, the biurocrat elites will prevail.

[ALFIEAJAPAN]

I felt exacly he same way; Naomi Klein doesn't appear to have a postion when you first hear her, but realise that she is a lefty and she is a Canadian. PC, feminist, Frankfurt school, the whole gamut. And remember: obscurantism.

[senorfarqueso]

@DanMorgan98

He's not talking about the book you dumbass. He's talking about an interview he saw, which he clearly says. Maybe if you weren't such a fucking idiot you could have realized this, but instead you chose to embarrass yourself by being overly critical and obscene for no reason.

[Bulacanos]

bureaucrat*

[DanMorgan98]

Holy shit you are a fucking moron. I read the book and understood instantly what she meant and what her position was. You have a very shallow and slow mind. You took four minutes what a 6th grader could have explained far more eloquently in 1.

[zardozcs]

MrCropper, I know exactly what you mean. I watched her waffling video -- but after I'd seen another one with milton friedman's TV appearances interlaced with Klein's public speaking. I couldn't tell at first if she was pro or con - capitalist. Talk about a middle of the roader.

[plenipotentiarius]

Somnys, I'll have to leave this as the comments appear unpredictably up & down this long column and I'm getting lost in it.

[plenipotentiarius]

If you've never seen this, then I'll have to presume you are as naive as your age indicates.

There are huge amounts of legislation in place to prevent this slippage, cartels, anti-trust laws operate in almost all modern democracies.

[somnys]

"Perhaps just showing how Friedman was misinterpreted, but that is also valuable."

I have a hard time parsing this sentence of yours. What are you saying? Who's showing? Who misinterpreted? What's valuable to whom?

[somnys]

I see you're trying to backpedal, but you have already admitted that "Cropper says nothing of this imposition." And neither did Klein by the way, not explicitly, (I've told you this before), so you can't say that Cropper must have heard it and understood.

And we both know that it went over his head, because that's the topic of this very video! He made this video to talk about how he completely missed what Klein was talking about. Did you miss that?

[somnys]

"Are you unaware of how often free market slips over into mafia like behaviour, how otherwise do you think there are so many court cases?"

Yes, I'm unaware. Because what you said here makes no sense. The phrase "free market slips over into mafia like behaviour" is as meaningless as "colorless green ideas sleep furiously."

[somnys]

"Are you unaware of how often free market slips over into mafia like behaviour, how otherwise do you think there are so many court cases?"

Yes, I'm unaware. Because what you just said is a bunch of nonsense. The phrase "free market slips into mafia like behaviour" is as meaningless "colorless green ideas sleep furiously."

[Rangerpjonwebx]

Stop the Junk Thought. There's no such thing as a free market, only individuals who interact in social networks and organizations. Read "Bad Samaritans: the myth of free trade and the secret history of capitalism." It shows what has actually happened in history, instead of the free market / invisible hand theory.

Research race, ethnic, gender, sexuality, age or class discrimination. It's gone on for a very long time.

Wake up and stop the Junk Thought!

[jtr3030]

she's not stating her position because she's a journalist, not a philosopher

[plenipotentiarius]

You have removed yourself outside our discussion of these videos by talking of Klein's wider beliefs, of which I'm not interested; that she is against the free market in toto is not at issue here.

Are you unaware of how often free market slips over into mafia like behaviour, how otherwise do you think there are so many court cases?

She just tries to point out some of these cases which do not easily fall within legal jurisdiction. I'd like to see your thinking make a similar effort.

[plenipotentiarius]

When I said Friedman was "over with" Pinochet, it means he visited him. Clearly you are introducing the notion of guilt and guilt by association but this aint no court of law.

[plenipotentiarius]

Sorry but if Klein said that it was imposed and Cropper understood that and then agreed with it, then what I said is true neither of us know if it went over his head or not, but we can assume he heard it as clearly as both of us did since I don't assume he is any less intelligent than you for example.

[plenipotentiarius]

Perhaps just showing how Friedman was misinterpreted, but that is also valuable.

[somnys]

No, she is against the free market, period. You're taking the claims she is making at face value, when they are false, relying on flimsy, mendacious argumentation. Since she is unable to argue against the free market ideas head on, she comes up with a ludicrous conspiracy that free market ideas were spread by shock, torture, etc.

[somnys]

"I never said he was guilty of anything, just that they were friends. You obviously added the guilt implication yourself!"

You said he was "over." You don't have to use the word "guilty" explicitly for the fallacy to apply. And you have your facts wrong as well, but that would be asking too much of you. Pointing out a logical fallacy will suffice.

[somnys]

"Cropper says nothing of this imposition..."

Finally, you admit it. And there goes your whole argument. And it doesn't matter what Klein said, because as we know, she went completely over Cropper's head.

[somnys]

Exactly. You said it. It's nothing new at all about having "ideas on the table." But Klein spins it into something sinister. She took a harmless quote from Friedman and a post-Katrina free-market solutions plan proposed by the Heritage foundation and turns it into something sinister by falsely associated it with shock, torture, war, etc.

[plenipotentiarius]

Again this is a false deliberately obtuse.

There'd be nothing new on the ideas front, there are thousands of agencies in the world who have "ideas on the table" for when disaster strikes, they been there since the Red Cross.

She talked of something very different, torture, war and shocking people such that they are easily taken advantage of and long-term structures are created above their heads. No doubt we see such structures lookin a little shaky these days in certain places.

[plenipotentiarius]

I think this is just obtuseness which we have seen to be false, when she mentioned torture shock etc and then clearly talked of people who didn't want someone carpet baging their local amenities but were afraid to complain (torture tends to have that effect) I think it represents the mafia end of the free market which you seem to be naive towards if you dont mind me saying.