Re: Christianity is Ethically Bankrupt (II)

Long awaited for Part II. Sorry it took so long, Blake. I will be talking about it on my radio program this evening as well.

I apologize for not having the entirety of our radio discussion. Hope to have it fixed tonight.

Category:

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Tags:

• Christianity
• Atheism
• Christian
• Atheist
• Ethics
• Libertarian
• Anarchist
• Morality
• Jesus

[galticus]

Personally, I cannot understand how someone who calls themself a Christian can be ok with killing (and note that I don't say murder). Taking someone's life is tantamount to sending them to Hell (if they're not a Christian).Now, Jeremiah, you are obviously very intelligent, and better versed in the Bible than I am, but... how can you support a state that sends people to Hell?

[paleocrat]

In what context? I readily grant that the Bible condemns murder. The Hebrew word in Genesis 20 (10 Commandments) is not merely killing. This is further made obvious in the following chapters which serve as what we know as case law. Distinctions are made between murder, manslaughter, killing in self-defense, capital punishment, etc. So to say it is an absolute prohibition against the state having the power of the sword here is to deny not only Exodus, but also to ignore Romans 13.

Hell? Explain.

[galticus]

And since when is the state universally a legitimate source of authority? Yes, Christ said "render unto caeasar" etc etc that were supportive of HIS state, but I doubt that Christ would approve of states that engage in genocide (that's us), racist policies (that's us), sexist policies (ditto), wars of agression (you get the point)... need i continue? I doubt that God has ordained our nation, and if God is overseeing our state, he is doing a poor job of it.

[paleocrat]

He was telling Pharisees and Jews, who predominantly opposed the empire and its occupation of Israel, that they render to him what is his. He wasn't talking to radical Roman loyalists.

What was Caesar's Rome like? Slaughtered Jews. Legalized abortion. Were extremely racist. Colonized areas and demanded they pay tribute. Put to death those who denied the deity of the Caesar, etc.

And listen, if you play line-item veto with Romans 13 and cherry-pick Scripture, that is your problem.

[galticus]

"Churches are relatively poor...Very few churches talk about the tithe..."

The Catholic church is incredibly wealthy... have you seen the Vatican? St. Peter's Basilica? How about some of the modern megachurches? Poor? I think not.

And really? I've been to literally dozens of churches, and every few months I hear a sermon about how Christians need to "give joyfully" as the Bible commands. The only sermons I've heard more are the Corinthians 13 sermon and the spiritual gifts sermon...

[paleocrat]

Most local Catholic parishes, unless they were built long ago as a city-wide parish or a cathedral are quite modest.

You are taking about the headquarters for the Catholic Church here. That would be like saying that all or most government buildings (and the local entities themselves) are wealthy because the White House is luxurious and people on Capitol Hill make good money. Piss-poor reasoning there, galacticus.

Look in a Catholic missal and tell me how often "money" sermons come up. Try.

[Millingtorres]

Great Response!

[Silam81]

Volumes on Christian ethics abound. And speaking of ethics: Why does no one mention the anti-slavery activity of the Catholic Church? Why is this being ignored? Why???

God is anti-slavery because God is Holy. No Bible that is truly Holy would justify it. No priest or preacher that is good would either. A heretic, however, would.

Christians are not sadistic, let alone masochistic.

There's a difference between religion and crime.

[TrexXanChen]

and if the 39,000+ demoninations of christianity cherry pick scripture, it's also our problem.

[galticus]

How about dissidents in Nazi Germany? Should they have followed the rules of their state? My point is simply that one should not be universally supportive of government. Romans 13 merely indicates that man CAN have legitimate authority over man.

As for Genesis 20 and Exodus 13, well... I am going to go out on a limb here and presume that you don't still believe we should adhere to everything, or anything, in the old testament. Do you still believe we should stone homosexuals? I doubt it.

[galticus]

I will try and be as concise as possible, but nonetheless I fear this will be a rather long explanation, so please bear with me.

Romans 13, as I believe it is to be interpreted, indicates that the existence of government IN GENERAL is valid. It is not a blanket statement condoning every government ever to exist. To elucidate... let me pose a few questions: Was the American revolution immoral/antibiblical? How about the overthrow of communist Russia, or any communist state?

[KevinSolway]

I know many young people who attend church, etc, out of *fear* of being discovered to be an atheist. I suspect a great many Christians are like this, and once the number of atheists in the US reaches a certain threshold level, there will be a landslide away from Christianity, leaving it a flailing religion for old ladies.