Class and religion in Iraq

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Sabah al-Nasseri: Conflict in Iraq is more complex than the Sunni-Shiite division pt.4/4

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[hogo1502]

Obama's "Change" motto is not but an illusion. Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.

[MuslimGhost]

no where in Islam does it restrict women from driving or voting. Islam gave women rights they would not get in the west until some 50 years ago: the right to chose who she marries, the right to inherit property, the rights of divorce, the right to work, and so on. As far as tolerating other religions, take a look at how many synagogues and churches are around in Muslim countries, centuries old.. they were left alone because of the laws of Islam.

[Ahmedo1984]

I can explain to you for hours but we can not agree so lets agree to disagree and for you youre thoughts and for me mine.

[Ahmedo1984]

If I was led by men I whould have practiced from birth but I have found my way to God 1.5 year ago at the age of 22 and I have stopped all the bad things such as smoking weed, Alchohol andsoon. So I am guided by God and not men and I don't follow men but by my own understanding and the guideliness of Qur'an. In our religion the only one Holy is God. And if anyone sais or does a thing which goes against that they are false and not to be followed.

[random0815]

good point, it cannot change (not with religion either) but there is minority protection in all present democracies (rooting in non-religious enlightenment btw.)

philosophy is a science (~ of thought), you wont find "faults" or "false sayings" in schopenhauers work either, and much of the koran is directives, you cant make big mistakes in directives: "thou shall hop on one leg three times and bark when thou get up in the morning" - is that true or false? .. probably healthy ^^

[Ahmedo1984]

There is no force in religion. Those who are Moslim are treated as Moslims and the others have their rights and the right to praktice their religion and have the rights upon goverment for protection. The Conradiction factor I mention from Qur'an is not the same as schopenhaurs. This is philosophy, Where as Qur'an mentiones science, Embryology, universe and there is no faults or false sayings. And Democracy is also forced upon the minority and this is just a factor that can not change.

[random0815]

yes but if you want to organize a state on this basis you are saying my way for all of you! i think i understand a bit of the core sentiment of islamic devotion and its not without value, but like all philosophy its a steep, rocky road no one should be forced to go

people probably found things that could be considered contradictions, but even if not: you wouldnt find contradictions in lets say schopenhauers "world as will and representation" either ..

[Ahmedo1984]

No room for interpretation. Yes they got it right and the chain of Narrators is still thought in Mekka/Medina. Never the same as Bible and different Books. The Proof? Qur'an it self. find one mistake contradiction and you have proven it to be false. But in the Arabic not a translation. You believe it or you don't. Youre way to you my way to me.

[random0815]

yes and there you have it: vast room for interpretation: did the companions get it right? were they honest/biased? same with the bible and all its different books

and god is not that big at explaining considering the vast amount of interpretation and confusion in all of religions

oh and i had an earlier point: your following conversation is medieval running in scholastic circles, no need to get involved with that

[Ahmedo1984]

... there are scolars who have dedicated their lives to Islam and are there to be consulted and to explain Islam. So 3:7 .... But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah....and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding(Scolars and Students of Knowledge of Islam).

[Ahmedo1984]

First of all don't go assuming you understand the context of the conversation and then reply with youre own emotions. Now to continue Not everybody can understand Qur'an and this is Why God send Messenger/Prophet Mohammad to explain and be an example for Islam. He has conveyed The Message to his companions and Family who wrote them on paper and compiled them just as the Qur'an was compiled by memory. And those who have accepted Islam and Studied Qur'an and Sunnah understand and if not...

[random0815]

and what makes you think that you happen to be born into the right kind of system? just one of the countless defeating arguments

"Not everybody can understand Qur'an."

exactly my point, a text which is supposed to be basis for legislation should be understandable for everyone and not a matter of interpretation - as the countless branches of islam, christianity, even judaism prove: religions are not! its really just the same autocratic truth claim that all extremists make