Real Race Surrealism

The video this is in response to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7kmFcK0y50&feature=results_video&play...

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• racism
• race
• realism
• martin
• willett
• equality
• diversity
• human
• differences

[ThirdRAILKink]

Reading Willett's comments on this comments page and the ones on his video you're responding to, I have to say the dude sounds much more reasonable than anyone who's attempted to debate him. He actually sounds truly skeptical and refreshingly moderate, not like someone who is just pushing a belief for emotional reasons. It seems both sides on any question on racial differences have already made up their mind and are deeply devoted to some ideology, egalitarianism or racism or whatever.

[Friendough]

@ThirdRAILKink

I certainly agree that people aren't approaching this issue fresh, without any biases. But why would they? What is the frame of reference under which we could discuss the issue objectively?

There is a history that shows a real human tendency to heap abuse on anyone who is perceived as inferior for any reason. That is why these kinds of arguments make so many people uncomfortable.

[Gsazraetr]

The fact that THIS video has any dislikes at all proves to me what a depraved place the internet is. I'm outta here.

[Friendough]

@Gsazraetr

It can be a pretty shitty place.

[MartinJWillett]

@xdassinx There is a difference between implying and inferring.

I am not any sort of sort and I am certainly not a race realist.

I remove libellous insulting comments and ban the person who made them. What is unusual or unexpected about this?

I did not call you a Nazi, I said you were attacking popular targets and expecting to achieve popularity, kudos and social status for it. In Nazi Germany people did that to Jews, today people do it to rednecks. These are all facts.

[MartinJWillett]

@HannibalBarca13 Do you think if we measured the height of every ethnic group we would find every group had the same mean, mode and median height? There's no mechanism to make them the same and I wouldn't expect them to be the same and you don't need to believe they are the same. Can we agree, without even measuring, that they are probably not the same?

Why would intelligence be different? The only difference is that in this case you need to believe it must be the same. I am not so prejudiced.

[ClannCholmain]

@MartinJWillett What was libelous and insulting about my comments which you removed?

[OriginalMindTrick]

@ThirdRAILKink

Thats a pretty good summary of the situation.

[OriginalMindTrick]

@Gsazraetr

Thank you for showing me the interesting debates betweem the egalitarians and fringeelements. Never heard of these people before. This pretty much summs things up: watch?v=0Lu2A0m9_IQ

[Gsazraetr]

@OriginalMindTrick I fail to see the straw men as I felt my reply dealt explicitly with your claim (suggested enforcement of different educational environments for different, entirely self-identified, racial groups) and nothing more. If I've misrepresented what you said it was unintentional and I'll need you to point out where I've done so.

Your other points and much more were addressed and settled over 5 months ago in the Fringeelements-SkepticalHereti­c debate and EvoGenVideos' many responses.

[OriginalMindTrick]

@OriginalMindTrick

but it's almost seems like wishful thinking to be to attributing all the differences only on expectation and other cultural factors. I feel your concern in this sensitive subject, and I'm not sure it's a correct way forward. Maybe you are right to ignore these differences in a way to create a better environment for everybody. On the other side its clear black communities in America and Europe not closing the gap to other groups and something seems to must be done another way

[OriginalMindTrick]

@Gsazraetr

You are building a few straw man arguments against a hypothetical claim.

Of course there will be a wide spread of aptitudes within every group, but Its also important to note that most people will lay along the baseline of their group IQ. The differences in academia between ALL groups are very much a accurate correlation to the IQ differences. This seems to be the case in large regardless of place and culture. I'm not a believer that IQ stands for all the differences

[Gsazraetr]

@ThirdRAILKink No worries at all. It's always good to see your own thoughts put into words.

And Friendough- "What is the frame of reference under which we could discuss the issue objectively?"

That is spot on.

[ThirdRAILKink]

@Gsazraetr

Sorry, I guess I didn't read the comment you were responding to or very carefully read your response. What you're saying makes perfect sense.

[Gsazraetr]

@Gsazraetr (2/2)

Thing is, even in the criterion being posited here as a measure of these abilities- IQ scores- we know that this simply isn't true. And how can it be? The delineations here are almost entirely sociopolitical rather than biological- take the example of the US President. The whole idea of sharply defined human groups is a tenuous one when it comes to genetics- for a kind of end-user explanation, I'd recommend you watch EvoGenVideos' responses to the clowns who started this mess.

[Gsazraetr]

@ThirdRAILKink (1/2)

You're right, I should clarify what I mean by "this". My post(s) are in reply to the view put forward by some that different environments might be needed for different groups. Such a claim can obviously ONLY be justified by a concrete basis in biology- that the group in question forms such a distinct genetic cluster that the innate abilities/cognitive skills of none of its members are comparable to those of any of the members of the group they are being separated from.