What If Bobby Kennedy Had Lived? 1 of 2
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@jasmcc1 not necessarily. He'd have found it far harder to make a case that he really represented the will of the party if he'd been up against a candidate who'd demonstrated massive support in the primaries. And Humphrey would have been far likelier to follow his true instincts and publicly break with the war before the convention, since he could still have been nominated with the combined support of his personal loyalists added to Kennedy and McCarthy's delegates.
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I don't think people are still arguing that Bobby would have had the nomination locked up had he lived. What most would say is that:
a)even with his lead in delegates, it would have been far more difficult for Humphrey to present himself as a credible nominee, and might well have withdrawn from the race, especially if his poll ratings against Nixon had been lower than Kennedy's(as they could well have been)
b)If Humphrey HAD still been nominated, he'd have likely broken with the war early.
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Bah! These primaries are all about momentum, and the California primary victory was massive. Kennedy had the momentum, only lost one state since entering, and would have pealed off both McCarthy supporters AND delegates committed to Humphrey. He had it, and would have been the next President of the United States. History would have been different, and there would have been no Nixon presidency.
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I was shocked when I found out recently that Walter Cronkite was involved in a secret society (Bohemian Grove). Shocked because I thought he was supposed to be "The Most Trusted Man in America". Now I wonder if my past respect for him has waned. But back to this RFK issue: I read one person here wrote that had Kennedy lived, he would of still lost to Humphrey in Chicago-but Triple H would of made him his vice-president (if that's true, why didn't he choose McCarthey instead of Muskie?).
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Wasn't New York's presidential primary yet to come? If Bobby had won that, it would have all been up for grabs. Perhaps Mayor Daley Sr. could have done something at the convention to throw it to Bobby. Daley was pissed at the demonstrators, but he didn't exactly like the war. An RFK-Daley alliance might've outflanked the LBJ-HHH-forged delegates.
If Bobby had lost the nomination but still lived, I'll guarantee you enough voters would've come out to throw HHH enough States to beat Nixon.
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There were only seven Democratic primaries in 1968, if I recall. That does not seem to me to be adequate for challenging the institutional support Humphrey had been putting together. But as so many other things showed us that year, never underestimate what the outside world can do to institutional function and institutional thinking.
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Someone sure as hell thought he was going to be a shoe in otherwise they wouldn't have assassinated him so promptly. He would've been president there is absolutely no doubt.
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humphrey still would have got nomination no matter what
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No one knows the answer 2 that question.
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Uh the real question should be "what if JFK had lived?"
The one thing I disagree with how this video is presented is the idea that Humphrey would've walked away with a landslide to the nomination. It would've been close, though I still give Humphrey a 60% over 40% to Kennedy over a hypothetical had he lived scenario. It's hard to know for sure how much in favor things would've gone or not gone for RFK. Minutes before his victory speech, he told Dick Goodwin to tell McCarthy that "if he withdraws and supports me now, I'll make him Secretary of State."
Nominay 1 year ago
@Nominay At no time do we say that Humphrey was poised on the night of June 4-5, 1968 to walk away with a landslide victory in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1968. We do not say that he was guaranteed to win the nomination at that time. We merely make the point that RFK himself was not guaranteed the nomination by winning the California primary. We don't know what would have happened had Senator Kennedy not been killed. And we never will know.
historymythbusters 1 year ago
@historymythbusters First of all, thanks for putting this incredible video together. I know not how you managed to collect all this footage and succinctly edit it. 2nd, I just feel it was premature to conclude then and now that Humphrey was poised to win. Sure, he had a clear pathway to the nomination - he was the frontrunner - but he was still hundreds of delegates away, and the one thing I see no one here talking about was the possibility of McCarthy releasing all of his delegates to Kennedy.
Nominay 1 year ago
@Nominay RFK himself makes clear in this video he needed McCarthy support. What we're saying here is that as of the night of June 4-5, 1968, it APPEARED Humphrey was poised to win the Democratic presidential nomination. It's a simple fact that HHH "appeared" to be poised for such a win. But we're also saying it would not have been completely impossible for RFK to have defeated HHH for the nomination. That would have been a difficult struggle for Kennedy but not impossible. Can we be any clearer?
historymythbusters 1 year ago
@historymythbusters Of course it was within the realm of possibility that RFK might have gained McCarthy support had he not been killed. Kennedy himself regarded this as a requirement if he was going to beat Humphrey (he makes this clear in the video). So the McCarthy factor is not being ignored. The bottom line here is we are simply making two key points: (1) RFK was not guaranteed the nomination by virtue of his California primary victory and (2) we will never know what would have happened.
historymythbusters 1 year ago