Alcoholics Anonymous - the 95% lie

Since 1935, Alcoholics Anonymous has helped millions of alcoholics to find and maintain productive and fullfilling lives free from alcohol. AA is without question, the greatest support group in the world and is available almost anywhere at no cost. It works!

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• Blamethenile
• Alcoholics Anonymous
• AA
• Bill Wilson
• Orange Papers
• alcoholism
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[TrinkBruder]

@BlackLabelSlushie It makes sense because of what I observed. If you make acceptance of the chronic definition of alcoholism conditional for membership, those who conclude they needed a temporary break will disappear. The 10+ year members remain because the group demands one accept the chronic state of the condition, and reject the acute understanding of alcoholism.

[BlackLabelSlushie]

@TrinkBruder Hi,

The 6:35 reference was just the point in the above video where they show the table of members/length of sobriety.

'Just because it works does not make AA (or any other program) true.' I agree.

I'm still surprised that the largest group of sober AA members is 10+ years. If only 14 percent of sober members have 5 years, but more than 2x that number have 10+ years, it must mean a large number of members leave the program.

[TrinkBruder]

@BlackLabelSlushie AA teaches alcoholism is chronic, not acute. Every member is taught for alkies drinking is lethal. Sobriety rates are higher for the 10+ year group because AA teaches an alcoholic cannot be cured by temporary breaks in drinking. The only solution is permanent abstinence from alcohol. If you leave and stay sober you are what AA calls a dry drunk. Those embracing the chronic conception of alcoholism remain 10+ years, and don't drink at all, hence, the greater success 10+ years.

[TrinkBruder]

@BlackLabelSlushie If you have a member as sponsor and are working through the 12 steps you are a member. I googled 'AA length of sobriety'. I don't know where you get the figure 6:35.

This whole debate about AA effectiveness is pragmatic, a dialogue AA seeks to create, however pejorative. Pragmatism is an isolated epistemology, i.e., its validity as a weltanschauung itself can be debated. Whether or not AA works may or may not matter. Just because it works does not make AA true.

[tragictravisty]

it is true that 95% of alcoholics who go to a meeting relapse. 95% of alcoholics who don't go to a meeting relapse. however, the percentage of alcoholics who continue to regularly attend meetings and relapse is much lower than 95%.

You wouldn't say that anti-psychotic medication doesn't work because 95% of schizophrenics who take one pill have psychotic relapses. So why hold AA to that standard?

[BlackLabelSlushie]

@TrinkBruder I'm really trying to understand facts, wherever they lead. Can you - or anyone here - explain the table "AA Members length of sobriety" at 6:35 min.?

What is an AA member? Is that EVERYONE who attends any meetings or some other criteria?

In the table, I don't get how the single largest group, 36%, is the 10+ years category, while 5-10 y is 14%. It's possible I guess but you would expect the % sober rate to be higher at eg 1y than at 10y