Corporate Lies and the Original Dixieland Jazz Band

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5pbNsSutY

In my short time working with with 78 RPM Records I've come to think what i thought was Vintage sound and recording may actual have been a false preception of Music pre 1920. I've read Victor Recording and Gramaphone manuals and they repeatly state 78rpm recorded at 78rpm. But i speculate 78 was not the stardard. Every sound engineer and artist were froced to make concessions on pitch, recording time and optimum preformance. Recording studio would fit longer playing times on a limited recording surface roughly 3:00 min. A Standard fox trot preformance would last 5 to 4 minutes. Result higher pitch and playback which would sound better on the gramaphone of the day it would be muted and muddled if played at it's correct speed. SO i slowed down the Original Dixieland jazz band early recordings and slowed it to a danceable tempo. And low and behold i dicovered whta i believe is the real sound of the Original dixieland Jazz band. No longer a crazy recording but a full well planned dance numbers full of life and contract against the standard Fox trot of the day. In some incidences i bought the sheet music andlisten to Player Piano Roll of the song song. So enjoy "The Tiger rag", St Louis Blues, Royal Garden Blues and At the Jazzman Band Ball. Complete with picture of the day.

Category:

Music

Tags:

• original
• Dixieland
• JazzBand
• tiger
• rag
• 78
• RPM
• St
• louis
• blues
• royal
• garden
• fox
• trot
• gramophone

[Zefrenm]

Before 1921 DJ la ROcca and larry shields only played thier tunes in C and D major, and for the jazz players who don't read thier parts from Piano Sheet music thats Bb and F major and thier modulation to Eb & F. Henry and Ragas did know other keys but had to play in the keys they all could play. Most of thier music was never written down until Sheet music co.'s song pluggers arranged the tunes to musically acceptable Keys.

[Zefrenm]

@Zefrenm "Bb and D major" i ment

[lesterwyoung]

I think it extremely unlikely that LaRocca and bandmates could only play in C and D. They would be much more likely to favour the "flat" keys such as F,Bb, Eb and Ab.

D would be very tricky on clarinet, particularly at up-tempos.

[Zefrenm]

@lesterwyoung It's documented that The ODJB members didn't read sheet music until after returning from europe. Even H Ragas (painist who had and most musical knowledge) had to use Corperate song pluggers to write his music down. Livery stable blues and Barnyards blues got DJ La Rocca and Henry Alcide in trouble because of that and i think Edwards remembers a story in which they were recording Tiger Rag for vocalion but La rocca started in D instead of C.

[Zefrenm]

@lesterwyoung And as for the Larry Shield's Clarinet. He would have been playing a Clairnet keyed with the Albert System. Which i believe has no problems with D major and uptempos. Listen to the Greek or Klezmer music.

watch?v=FvyqPAb18BM & watch?v=xHDxAO4hsYA

[zjsprout]

To me, the key is the sound of the cymbal decay. You can't manipulate that with acoustic era technology, and at this speed the cymbals sound more like a slow hiss than a percussion instrument. I agree with your hypothesis, but I think the speed used here is too slow. Still, interesting and valid, imho. Thanks!

[Zefrenm]

@zjsprout the hypothsis was drafted years ago before i had a copy of the songs in question. And i didn't know then that La roca and band mates could only play in the key of c and d before his trip to europe. then search "original dixieland jazz band and zefrenm" and see the new treatments, ans then watch "Viva la Rocca"

[mikemcgee]

if you were in person listening to the real band it would have better fidelity than the record at the time. That was a picture of Irene and Vernon castle

[KawhackitaRag]

@StevenDFenrich Yes, why not go find Tony Sbarbaro's chinese crash cymbal and make a comparison with the record? Although I agree the record may be a little fast the way it is normally played... I think it sounds unnaturally slow here, and the musical instruments also do not sound quite natural. This is hard to put into words, but you can be pretty sure a recording is at the correct speed when the musical instruments sound the most NATURAL (with vocalists, this is even easier to tell).

[FunnnnnnnnnnnnnnY]

Interesting...what would there be besides 78 pre 1920?

[luvmyrecords]

Trouble is, you've got Tiger Rag in the key centers of concert B (first section) and then E major (second section). I am a full time professional clarinet player, and while I'm sure the guys could play here, it wouldn't be a normal, work-a-day way to go. I've seen Larry Shield's clarinet - it's amazing he could play anything on it. St. Louis Blues is now in Db - also not a common key in those days.

[StevenDFenrich]

Listen to Edward's trombone slides at :22.  At the adjusted speed, he slides from (concert) D natural to G natural. A trombone cannot make such a slide without a flow break.

[TuberOnTheLoose]

Interesting to see this discussion, which I have had before with some other fans of old jazz. At 78 rpms a 10" disc can only record about 3 1/2 minutes of music (which became the industry standard for decades). If a song was slightly longer they could slow down the disc during recording to make it last longer, but when played on a phonograph it just sounds a little off because it is faster than normal. I suggest the possibility early recording equipment may not have been mechanically precise.

[StevenDFenrich]

It sounds slightly more authentic at a slower speed, but I think you're overdoing it - the singing on Royal Garden Blues sounds too baritone. A settlement of your fine argument may rest in some Louisianan museum in the form of Sbarbaro's (no red line, youtube, that's how the man spelled his name thank you) drum kit - I agree with the post that suggests a cymbal crash decay comparison.

[halvickery]

There are several recordings right here on YouTube that blast your theory out of the water. The vocalist on Royal Garden Blues was by Al Bernard. I've found at least three electrically recorded vocals by Bernard made in the late '20s that show that he is indeed a tenor, and not a baritone as your slowed down vesion of RGB would have us believe.