Total War: Shogun 2 - The Black Ship First Encounter
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@mercedescl You can also blame the fact that the ancient Chinese considered everyone outside their cultural borders to be "barbarians".
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@aa3gunner Not exactly that simple. In fact, Song dynasty demonstrated some of the most sophisticated administration and management systems the world would never see again until the Victorian age. Instead of blaming incompetence of the Song officials, I will choose to blame the fact that Song dynasty never develop real peaceful relationships with her neighbors, starting wars that she never could properly finish. Jing repeated the same mistakes and she got taken out first.
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@mercedescl you are exactly correct. These situations were also the reason why they eventually wore out the Song despite their efforts against the Mongols. That, and because of internal corruption, incompetence, and defecting Song military officers who surrendered to them.
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@mercedescl I am not ruling out peace time progresses or power of consumerism, but I am just stressing the importance of more money pouring into wars and arm races = more advances and experiments in new technologies and innovations.
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@aa3gunner That's because in Song dynasty, China was facing evolving enemies (Liao, Jing, Xi Xia) simultaneously in two fronts for nearly two centuries. In fact, over a quarter of the Chinese population and half of the Song expenditure involved in military spending. If you researched on the rivalry between Ming Dynasty and Jing/Qing invaders in the seventeenth century, similar rate of new weapons adaptation and innovations was introduced.
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@sm0keshell and one more thing. Whatever made the Europeans "superior" was only because of the compass, gunpowder, cannons, guns, and steel-- all of which were invented and mass produced in China loooong before in Europe.
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@mercedescl @mercedescl You left out one very important fact. The Chinese invented guns, cannons, explosives, bombs, and rockets well during the time when Europeans were still jousting Knights from horseback. They were the first to mass produce military cannons and gunpowder weaponry during the High-Middle Ages. It was this advancement and sophistication that made the Song Chinese the most difficult, costly, and time consuming (50 yrs) enemy for the Mongols to "defeat".
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@Blobnaa Actually, even in the Renaissance and age of Exploration, European nations still had to pay large amounts of tributary tax just to trade with Ming China. In 1521-1522, the Battles of Tamao saw the complete annihilation of 2 Portuguese fleets under the devastating Chinese cannons and Naval supremacy. Europe couldn't match China until she fell into a deep economic and political strife that made it vulnerable to a weak and corrupt Manchurian occupation (1644-1911).
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@sm0keshell that only applies to the industrial revolution--- one that Japan had full participation in. China had the most advanced and sophisticated society for centuries and centuries. Horrible political, natural, and economic depressions and disasters caused it to have a hard time keeping up from the 19th to 20th centuries.
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Hands down, the Western nations were superior to others..
@TheSwedishAssassin There is no secret of European advances throughout the 15th to 21st centuries. The answer is ridiculously simple: there is no second continent on earth that has so much wars, conflicts, and cutthroat competitions. Roman vs everyone else, Christians vs Muslims, Catholic vs Protestants, Germany vs Russia, Britain vs France, the US vs Europe, etc. Every major advance in technologies is paid with tens of thousands of lives.
mercedescl 2 months ago 48
@TheSwedishAssassin cont...But since its induction, the advancement halted and stagnated and so the torch has been passed to another culture to tinker with. We then move towards Europe with much more complex context than China and saw it flourish in a renaissance. My point is all cultures take the bones of a previous one and build it upon it. There is no "better" culture but merely ones that followed a different evolutionary path.
Blobnaa 2 months ago 29