Justice vs. Vengeance and the Death Penalty

Jonathan Kim and Cenk Uygur discuss the difference between justice and vengeance, what the death penalty is for, and if the death penalty prevents people from committing capital crimes.



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[bananihana]

two epic minds combine

[00maharum00ma]

Vengeance is an animalistic desire we have to retaliate against attacks. Justice is a moral desire we have to fulfill righteous values.

Allowing the state to murder someone who has been detained and is no immediate threat to any defenseless people is vengeful, but it isn't just.

Without that understanding, we don't live in civilization. We live in barbarism.

[hint0122]

for some, there will never be a chance of redemption  since they honestly don't care.

[ultradumbass]

@Joolazoo there is no "intellectual freedom" in prison, that's the whole idea. the idea of life without parole is death by old age. an inmate on death row has several years to become "redemptive" before they die therefore the argument makes no sense. you'll notice states with the death penalty release lifers faster, michigan hasn't had the death penalty since 1846 yet every murder automatically means life till death. in canada before 1964 with the dp a life sentence meant 7 years now it is 25.

[ultradumbass]

@Joolazoo you can't expect life without parole to be a better method that is even more cruel than the death penalty. the overwhelming majority of people who are against the death penalty also want the prisoner to still be in prison for the rest of their life. so explain how exactly this fairs any better. the only reason it seems people oppose the death penalty is they are afraid of executing the innocent even though they'll be putting innocent people away for the next 60 years until they die.

[guatepower]

lol at 3:05

[treismac]

@Joolazoo

The morality of "an eye for an eye" rises not only from its administering of justice, but also from it acting as a restraining force against vengeance. If a person loses one of his eyes to another's act of violence, it is unlikely that the man who lost his eye would be content with only taking out one of his assailant's eyes in kind. More than likely the man who lost his eye would want to completely blind his attacker or do even far worse to him or his family.

[amolapaz1]

I cringe at the thought of the DP, not due to any sympathic sentiment towards murderers but rather at the realization of basic human imperfections. I believe that what you give in life is what you should receive so if you give death you should receive death, however, the possibility for errors are ever-present. The thought of an innocent person having their lives taken in my name is not a comforting thought. Therefore I am totally against the DP.

[Benj71]

Cenk should think through his views on the DP. There is no deterrent element, and its not possible to make the DP more "certain" given that you need appeals etc as you are dealing with taking someone's life. There are a whole host of other reasons to be against the DP too, including the decent Catholic one (although I am not a Catholic) that killing people is WRONG, and killing people for killing people does not make it right.

[SilverAnxo]

The American vs Eurozone "justice" systems prove that conventional deterrence literally doesn't work. Real murderers, rapist, paedophiles really aren't interested in whether or not they go to jail. They have mental issues and need to be rehabilitated. The re-offending rates compared to the USA (Longer sentences, harsher prison conditions) compared to euro-zone prisons (rehabilitate, shorter sentencing, alternative sentencing) are literally out standing in favour of the euro-zone.

[felixbrignoni]

I'm torn when it comes to the death penalty am 50% against it but 50% for it. There are some cases when a judge finds the defendant guilty and then they find out later that the defendant didn't commit the crime but by then is to late he or she is already dead by the state.