Uvic Abortion Debate Oct 21st '09 Part 9 of 10

On October 21st 2009 a debate took place at 3:30pm on the Uvic Campus. The debate featured Philosophy professor Dr. Eike-Henner Kluge, one of Canadas top bioethicists, and Stephanie Gray, executive director of the Canadian Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (CCBR).

Unfortunately, the only recording device I had was an iPhone, and because of my seating position the audio may be hard to hear at times, and I could not capture the slides each presenter used.

Also, at the end of part 2 and beginning of part 3 Gray plays a graphic video, that I didn't capture. It probably wasn't youtube friendly anyway. Even though it's mostly silent during the duration of that clip, I left that part in so we could listen to the few reactions people had.

After a quick google search I found links to the graphic video. It turns out it was two videos put together and shortened for the presentation. Please exercise caution before clicking these links as they are extremely graphic.
Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/yleljue
Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/yl8538a

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Abortion
• Atheist
• uvic
• education
• bioethics
• eike-henner
• kluge
• stephanie
• gray
• pro-life
• pro-choice
• rationality
• reason
• philosophy

[wood9670]

1) Her organization does not take a position on contraception, she was representing her organization, therefore she was not at liberty to answer the question. She did offer to give her personal opinion after the debate.

2) The call to finish the sentence when one says the "right to choose" is a call for transparency. If your position is intellectually & morally defensible then one ought not have to veil their position.

Take pride in being pro-abortion, otherwise reevaluate your position.

[randzfanny]

Dr. Kluge disgusts me. His points are not valid and he contradicts himself several times. Basically he is saying unwanted children should be aborted, so I think half of the worlds population would be gone if we had it his way. If a woman chose to open her legs she should deal with the consequences. If she is raped is it the fetus' fault?

[SocialDissimulation]

If a woman can make a fetus, why can't she abort it?

[Brooks148]

after watching part 1&2 fully

How I feel.

1. the fetus in the linen closet is just poor practice. They need to be better with cleaning.

2. I don't know, or care about obama's stance, since i live in canada.

3. I don't know if we have any laws against late term abortion, but there should definitely be.

4. The guy doesn't seem to understand the differences between human life and a person, and what that means ethically and for people who are pro-choice.

[Brooks148]

He also plays another word game by saying that abortion is the intentional killing of a human being. Which is entirely true, but then he says its about whether we thing the action of killing a person is an injustice, that pro-choice people support. Which it isn't. I would assume someone who claimed to be pro-abortion would be in favor of killing a person, but not pro-choice.

[Brooks148]

However, a person who claims to be pro-choice doesn't support the legitimacy of all abortions. That would be more along the lines of pro-abortion. A person who is pro-choice would not support the partial birth abortion procedure unless it was a life or death situation. There is huge difference between abortion supported by pro-choice, and late term abortion.

[Brooks148]

I watched up to 6:41 of pt 2. Didn't look at part one. Most of it he is taking the time to describe one of the late term procedures, known as partial birth abortion.

Around 5:38 he starts to play a little game, saying that a person who says abortion is a legitimate choice is the same as a person who supports all types of abortion. He himself doesn't distinguish the differences between an 8 week or 22 week abortion. ...

[wood9670]

Watch the video link below for a basic understanding of why I see the term pro-choice as a veil and believe pro-abortion to be the more transparent and intellectually honest term.

watch?v=njPzpLKO8wo&feature=re­lated

You could watch part 1 and 2 if you like but the relevant section for the segment can be found at 5:38

Or google "Commentary: Obama's Abortion Extremism by Robert George"

[Brooks148]

That would be, if the claim of being pro-choice was veiled in some way. Which it is not. I personally don't like either titles, pro-choice or pro-life because of their ambiguity. But I don't go around making straw man arguments to get a reaction. 'Pro-abortion' often implies the the inclusion of late-term abortion. Which is why it is not used as much.

Pro-Choice could be better summed as "Pro ethical choice". As we support the freedom to make all ethical choices. That's how I see it anyway.

[thenameischarlie]

It was a cheap shot on Stephanie's part and obviously she was not able to adequately answer the question and had to insult/attack the student as opposed to attacking the question.