Does Smaller Government Create More Jobs?

Bob Pollin: There is no evidence that austerity and cuts to social programs creates jobs

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[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 In addition to government's inability to help the masses, it is also impossible for the masses to effectively monitor government. The costs of watching and evaluating each politician, and then campaigning against each one that doesn't live up to expectations, is incredibly high. The rich can do this because they can hire lobbyists, but the poor and middle classes haven't the time or the money to exert any real influence on government.

[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 I'm actually saying we should toss out ALL government.

See, the problem is that government, unlike a hammer, is inherently immoral, because it relies on the initiation of the use of force. You would not say that rape is sometimes immoral, but can be used for good things; rape is always wrong, and the use of government is always wrong.

[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 Government is inherently a tool of the wealthy; it cannot be effectively used to help the poor. The nature of government is to take small plunders from the masses and hand them over to individuals; the masses are far less likely to notice their small losses than the rich are to notice their large gains. If government spent money on the masses, however, it would have to take every cent that it doles out, so the masses would be no better off overall.

[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 No it isn't; it's just a definition. If I say "Plato is the author of The Republic" and then restate it in another manner (such as "Plato wrote The Republic"), that isn't a tautology; I'm just stating it differently to make sure it is understood.

[spartan2600]

@QuatFax "if people are being coerced, there isn't a free market (the free market is defined as an economy without coercion)"

That is a tautology.

[spartan2600]

@QuatFax Saying we need to toss out most, but not all of government but leave in place capitalism and business is a recipe for capitalist tyranny and profit-driven privation for most of us.

The hammer of government is being used to smash in windows. That doesn't mean we destroy all hammers since we cannot repair those windows or build new houses without hammers.

[spartan2600]

@QuatFax Sorry for the late reply, but government is a tool. It is currently used to accelerate the concentration of wealth/capital, but that is not its only use. In fact, many things, like unemployment, homelessness, lack of healthcare and education can only be solved collectively, not through piddly charities or through profit-driven enterprises. Government is the only collective tool we have at the moment that could fix those issues.

[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 I admit there would be inequalities, but nothing on the scale necessary to reestablish the state and regulate their competitors. And businesses cannot, by definition, coerce their competitors in the free market; if people are being coerced, there isn't a free market (the free market is defined as an economy without coercion). Businesses could manipulate each other, but if a business gets a reputation for fraud, it's hardly going to make any sales.

[QuatFax]

@spartan2600 "Capitalists require the government to protect them"

EXACTLY! Capitalism (if we define it as an economic system ruled by those who control capital) is NOT consistent with the free market. If not for the government, capitalists could NEVER manipulate the economy as they do. Only government policy allows these huge corporations and their owners and managers to plow over the working class.

[spartan2600]

@QuatFax There really is no such thing as a "free market." You admit there would still be inequalities under a free market. Well, those wealthy few who find themselves at the center of a concentration of power will impose their own rules and regulations. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out- they'll just do what is in their own greedy self-interest. Playing fair is bad for profits. Anyways, businesses already manipulate and coerce eachother, even where governments stay hands-off.