William Lane Craig vs Ronald De Sousa 6/16 (York University)

From William Lane Craig's Ontario Universities Debate Tour.

Does God Exist? Professors William Lane Craig and Ronald De Sousa debate. Sponsored by Campus for Christ. Hosted by York University

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People & Blogs

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• William
• Lane
• Craig
• Ronald
• De
• Sousa
• Atheism
• Theism
• Does
• God
• Exist

[AbdielAbiram]

when is the rest of the debate going to upload?

[Christianjr4]

Sometime tomorrow hopefully. Could be Tuesday. The reason why I don't have the rest up is because I lost the othe parts by accident so I'm putting them together again. I apologize for the long wait.

[regelemihai]

No proof? So you do agree with his claim about atheism morality.

There's no proof for objective morality, thereofre it is random.

I'd say that claim, that goes against human nature, requires "proof". Not that contrary...

[regelemihai]

Evolution doesn't account for moral altruism. So it's certainly not "obvious", far from it.

As far as defintion goes, I'm sure you can answer that one yourself.

Right and wrong may vary of the approximation to the higher standard itself, but still exist, and they're universal.

[regelemihai]

"To say further than a God of a particular religion is right about morality, is even stranger."

The issue of a particular theology is not relevant. The concept debated here is the general ontological idea of a god. If morality is objective, which apparently you deny, then it must have aa trascendent cause. It's not a matter of what God wills--morality is grounded IN God (of course, again, that is if we grant morality exists at all).

[Recordscience]

@regelemihai You've evaded my question entirely.

I think as disturbing as it may or may not seem to you, it *is* possible that there is no fundamental basis of morality. Even if there was any, and if a 'God' was needed for it, then it would assume that God wants there to be morality, which is an enormous assumption and can't be proven. To say further than a God of a particular religion is right about morality, is even stranger.

But I meant to comment only on your misunderstanding of ethology.

[regelemihai]

@Recordscience Wow, this post is old. Didn't even remember I debated this topic. Well, in short, the prospect of explaining the origin of certain moral traits is not what's being debated here. Craig himself makes the distinction between moral epistomoloy and moral ontology. We debate the basis of the existance of morality.And if both atheists and theists affirm the reality of moral values,one cannot escape the question of God's existance.

[Recordscience]

@regelemihai

I don't think you have a sufficient understand of evolution if you don't think that there is Any behavior, period, that it couldn't account for. I challenge you to give me an example, and although you may call my subsequent explanation merely post-hoc, I personally find it much more satisfactory than to attribute it to supernatural causes.

[hexusziggurat]

@Omnicron777 you're right but to list that data as something of use would likely be on a case study based on like numbers or else you could list off almost everything in existence as "theists comprise the highest numbers" ...most killing...most birth...most poker players....most swimmers....most people who use the mail system....etc....it just becomes nonsensical and useless data.

[hexusziggurat]

@UrinationNation Humanity placed the burden on ourselves. We sinned therefor we have to live out this flesh life with death to the mortal coil in the path. Thats not neglect...thats a just being. Though in His love for us, He showed us a path to return to Him. Quite nice of Him.

[hexusziggurat]

@Omnicron777 i think the study is on a per capita basis ....take 100 atheists ...take 100 theists etc. find averages etc.

[kvash3154]

to say God did it, is to say nothing at all, or is a word that has no content?

wouldn't saying "nothing" did it, be the same thing?

[regelemihai]

Perhaps I should've been more explicit. It's not reciprocal altruism I was talking about(and the one you mentioned), but radical altruism which is a totallt different concept.

I admire your civility. I don't often get these types of responses from ppl who disagree with me :-P