1 Corinthians 6:9-10

The "clobber passage" of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Problems with the Greek words malakois and arsenokoitai.

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[anim8ion]

manbeds! loves it.

your vids have really opened my eyes. its just crazy that in what the latest american version they actually say in a footnote that malakois means something other then homosexual but they don't change it in the text. i wonder why, it doesn't make any sense. do you have any idea why they admit it but don't change it? i don't know to much anymore about religious politics.

[NoWallsMinistry]

I think people are afraid to go against tradition... especially in religious areas

[clay56]

"That's a lot of speculation to explain why Paul might have contradicted both himself and Jesus... and for what?"

Perhaps because there are many Christians who may forget Paul was not perfect and as such think of him practically every bit as flawless as Christ Himself.

"Meanwhile, the historical meaning of malakoi simultaneously allows him to remain consistent with both himself and Jesus. No speculation required!"

It's actually more personal presumption since the "historical... (Cont.)

[clay56]

Part 2

...Meaning" is one of a number of definitions to the word "malakoi." Again, Christ used it to describe a garment belonging to John the Baptist. Paul himself didn't specify precisely what he meant by the word. This makes consistancy between them both another presumption.

"Again, this is not an argument for inerrancy."

Looks like we may be split here. Since Paul's not being inerrant could have made his teachings (unlike those of Christ's) less than perfect. Again, you may... (Cont.)

[clay56]

Part 4

...Human error. But if what you've stated is true, it's still good we have Paul's (overall) more reflective, more thoughtful follup letter better known as 2nd Corinthians. :)

"Sounds like Paul bashing to me."

No bashing intended. Paul might well have been the greatest of the apostles. Yet as intelligent and wise as he and others like Moses and Soloman probably were, they were once more not invunerable to human error and as such not beyond human criticism.

[PaulOnHomosexuality]

@clay56 That's a lot of speculation to explain why Paul might have contradicted both himself and Jesus... and for what? Meanwhile, the historical meaning of malakoi simultaneously allows him to remain consistent with both himself and Jesus. No speculation required!

Again, this is not an argument for inerrancy. It's solely allowing Paul to be consistent with himself. Why would we assume Paul was less self-consistent than any other ancient author? Sounds like Paul bashing to me.

[clay56]

Part 3

...Set of circumstances. NOT saying this made him a bad teacher or person, only that unlike Christ he wasn't perfect and vunerable to human error.

"I believe Paul understood Jesus' teachings on salvation and judgment perfectly."

It's fortunate we have the teachings of Christ Himself to be certain in any case. :)

[clay56]

Part 2

...Corinthians. The problem with this is that he COULD have responded to much of what he heard perhaps from passions as shock and anger rather than reflective thought. If so, it's probably not the only time since He went as far to say in Galatians that even an angel of Heaven should be cursed for teaching something apart from what he himself taught. So yes, IF by "malakoi" Paul were referring to catamites, I could see him making such a condemning, (hasty) remark in such a... (Cont.)

[clay56]

"If Paul was wrong about salvation/judgment, then Christianity has a huge problem."

Actually you have a VERY good point about the catamites. If they were doing what they did against their will, then it does indeed seem such in itself should not count against their salvation. But Paul was addressing a church he had been informed had serious problems with the conduct of many of it's members. Paul prided himself on his passions or "boldness" as evidenced in 2nd... (Cont.)

[PaulOnHomosexuality]

@clay56 It's important to separate what Paul taught about salvation/judgment from everything else he taught. If Paul was wrong about salvation/judgment, then Christianity has a huge problem. If he was wrong on others things, there's no problem.

Paul stated that the 'malakoi' cannot enter God's kingdom. This is a very different issue than hair length, his views on the place of women in the church, etc.

I believe Paul understood Jesus' teachings on salvation and judgment perfectly.

[clay56]

Part 3

...To ruin. Paul also had wisdom. It didn't keeping him from being quite arguably wrong in not wanting to give a traveling companion, John-Mark a second chance. Good thing his friend Barnabas felt felt differently otherwise we might not have the Gospel according to Mark. :)