Psychological Determinism vs Free Will

The writer D.H. Lawrence (1885.9.11--1930.3.2) once stated, "The masses are feeble-minded like an idiot. They have always been exploited and always will be exploited. Why? Because they have not enought wit to distinguish between their own original feeling and the feeling diddled into existance by the exploiter."

This video goes into the primary factor that gives Lawrence's declaration legitimacy.

In the video background is a Microsoft Plus! Dancer dancing to the sound of the philosophical discussion.

Free eBooks, which include books of quotes, can be found by clicking the following link or copying and pasting it into your address bar:

http://facts4u.com/free/

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[laskji]

I like your point about a nebulous uncaused freewill being nonsensical. And the idea that determinism fosters a more compassionate attitude is enlightening.. To a point. What I'm saying is nobody 'tries' or 'learns' anything. Both of these are just illusory.We are marionettes bouncing to and fro at the behest of the puppetmaster of nature.. We become observers of a drama unfolding out of our control. The existential nausea gives way the determinist nausea

[unseenstrings]

Every human alive will eventually die. Of course, people imagine all sorts of ways to deny the reality of death. But that is besides the point. You're talking like a fatalist. And the inevitableness of death ought to give you more than sufficient reason to imagine life is indeed a vain undertaking. However, you don't. Why? At least if the future is causally determined, we really don't know for sure what the future holds. So why act like a fatalist under the supposition determinsim may be true?

[unseenstrings]

I suspect your feelings are based on false assumptions. Those who believe in a god assume the world would be amoral and basically criminally insane without the same belief. However, the facts bear witness to the falsity of such assumptions. Buddhism, Jainism, Unitarianism, Taoism, and Shintoism don't have a god per se, but adherents have some of the highest morals of any humans. I have a friend raised Hindu, but became atheist. Yet he retains his vegetarian morals. Morals develop from experience

[whitenightf3]

@unseenstrings in the clip the voice attributes it to George Bernard Shaw, hence my confusion and question.

[unseenstrings]

@whitenightf3, whoops! I thought you wanted to know where I got the quote. It was Lawrence who made the statement. My previous information provides enough information so that you should be able to locate and download the 124 page free ebook (PDF) of quotations, should you be interested in doing so.

[unseenstrings]

laskji said, "Even arguing is an attempt to convince, and 'convince' is a nonsense word without free will."

How in the world can you not see the contradiction? How in the world can you say such nonsense with a straight face. Then again, I cannot see your face. You may be LOL.

Silly, a person with free will could not be swayed with words, imagery, or anything. Don't you get it? Free will means mental processes would be free from the causal effect of words. Free will means unaffected by anything

[unseenstrings]

Free will has historically been defined as the ability to make choices "without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law." (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1975)) And this is what is commonly meant when the term "free will" is used. However, some people who know better believe the free will illusion is necessary for social control. I believe the free will illusion keeps people living in the dark ages. The term "free will" cannot help anyone truly understand human cognition.

[unseenstrings]

Are you saying organisms do not "try" to survive? Or are you saying that the organism that "tries" to survive does so outside the laws of nature? Are you saying that when the bitch nips the needle-toothed pup to wean it from nursing, the pup does not learn that nursing is no longer permitted, i.e. "bad"? Are you saying that when a babe is pottytrained, the cognative processes somehow become magical but the cognative processes of the housebroken dog are not so? Please define an uncaused will?

[laskji]

Good point about recognition of causal factors. However "responsibility" "Try" "morality" "good" and "bad" simply have no meaning at all if determinism is true... Even arguing is an attempt to convince, and "convince" is a nonsense word without free will. Removing freewill isn't the same as removing God. God is only one of many 'motivations' to be good... Freewill is not a motivation to be good.. it is the 'means' to being good. I think you are oversimplifying the implications of determinism...