Reform or Revolt: The Mass of Pope Paul VI

Reform or Revolt: The Liturgical Movement and the Mass of Pope Paul VI. A thorough look into the liturgical movement of the 20th century - and before! Examines the roots of the development of the Mass of Pope Paul VI

Category:

Travel & Events

Tags:

• Traditional
• Latin
• Mass
• Liturgical
• Movement
• Paul
• VI

[pfpnewhope]

The belief that God does not change may or may not be true. In either case it cannot be proven so far as I am aware. In any event, that statement is often used to support reverting to liturgical forms from our childhood as if the liturgy never changed but that has never been true if you study the history of liturgy. It constantly changes. So if you wish to freeze the liturgy at some point, why not go back to what Jesus did at the last supper instead of some council in the 1500's?

[cathcom]

While I don't find it difficult to accept the belief that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow - I believe as readily that change in just about everything else is a reality. However, not all change is good. Would you not agree? Do the benefits of the liturgical revolution outweigh the negative effects? Is a return to a mode of worship, one which was embraced by innumerable saints, undesirable?

[pfpnewhope]

Not all change is good, but who defines good? Most things that are good for me I would prefer not to do and I assume that I am not unique. As for negative effects, who defines those and on what criteria?  The gospel is the core of what innumerable saints embraced and the liturgy changed constantly until the Council of Trent, even after that time to a more subtle degee.

[cathcom]

If the post-conciliar vernacular liturgy is "good" for you, go for it. As a father of 8 children I can say definitively that it was not "good" for our family. So there you have it: one man's good is another's "not-so-good." I don't think it is particularly accurate to say that "the liturgy changed constantly" until the Council of Trent in the same context that the Novus Ordo has changed the liturgy. The former reflects organic development, the latter a fabricated, man-made effort (Cld. Ratz wds)

[SwordsmanOfFaith]

Hello there, I noticed your comment.

I do feel sorry that you learned nothing about the faith because the teachers you had probably knew nothing themselves.

But the thing that strikes me is that you think that someone could steal, go to confession and do it again. I'd like to inform you that this is false. For a valid absolution of the penitent's sins during confession the penitent must be sincerely sorry for his sins and the firm resolution to never commit these sins again.

- Pax Christi.

[Ticklop]

I feel disturbed by the architectural & artistic difference post Vatican II... what the heck is wrong with bishops, sanctioning construction of these poor buildings!!

Not that Modern art is bad...some new imagery may be used, so long as the LEX ORANDI-LEX CREDENDI thingy is in place.

However, associating all the changes with past heresies is foolish.

I love Latin, but the false elitism and the improper "sanctity" that becomes attached to it is wrong. there's no such thing as a "holy language".

[monkeyman3895]

Wow. I never realized just how Protestant like most Novus Ordo Masses were until putting the two against each other. Notice how I say MOST. The Novus Ordo Mass can be done in a matter that is just as Catholic and reverent as the Tridentine Mass (Just look at a Papal Mass). Not saying that either one is invalid or anything, but one is definitely more solemn and Catholic looking.

[HetmanWojtek]

33:00

"Wycliff was the first to translate the Bible into English"

Nope. There were plenty of English translations of the Bible before Wycliff. Some dating back to the 7th century with Caedmon, monk of Whitby.

Thomas More: 'The whole Bible long before Wycliff's day was by virtuous and well-learned men translated into the English tongue, and by good and godly people with devotion and soberness well and reverently read' (Dialogues III).

Youtube: Abundance of Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff

[MeloaEpiphany]

@Christiscatholic33ad -- Traditio.com has a link to a downloadable "Official Traditional Catholic Directory" listing several locations in the United States where Latin Masses may currently be offered.

May God help you find a traditional Latin Mass site near your area. :-)

[Christiscatholic33ad]

It saddens me that I'm 44 years old and have never been able to attend a traditional latin mass and that our beautiful houses of God are being demolished and replaced with these hideous protestant looking churches where the tabernacles are shoved off into a corner or seperate chapel.

[SAYYOURROSARY]

@pfpnewhope Why would a perfect being "change" and "change to what ?" I lloked at this clows "channel" and he is a paid shill . Go look at his "katholick" channel . I would say it IS up to par for modernists .

[africa1975]

Where you from?

[baguazhang77]

I was in tears over the beauty and majesty of the Latin Mass. That is the form of Liturgical worship our Lord and Savior deserves.

The Church agrees too, because it was never disallowed.

I am not saying the vernacular mass, Vatican II, any church council or any Ex Cathedra teaching of any pope is/was wrong, but that in many cases they are wrongly interpreted, and I certainly know which mass I prefer (Latin).

I looked online and there are some being offered weekly near me. Praise God!!

[theyanna]

@kiwichristian2009 said "Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? I"

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

Who says He is sacrificed, crucified again, in the mass? Once again, my friend, you criticize what you do not understand. You are criticizing beliefs that you yourself made up =)

[WayOfTheMaster454]

I suppose when they tried to make all churches in the post reformation world switch to the Tridentine Rite their was some pissing and moaning about it. But the ones that have studied the Mass know that all masses and liturgies are oriented toward one goal: the divinization of man.

[kiwichristian2009]

Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."