Science & Literacy as Dangerous Ideas

This is a response to Fred's interesting video on dangerous ideas.
http://www.amazon.com/Proust-Squid-Story-Science-Reading/dp/0060933844/ref=sr...

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Proust and the Squid
• literacy
• alphabet
• neuroscience
• language acquisition
• evolutionary theory
• praxis
• predisposition
• tendency
• culture
• precarious
• achievement

[fruitsofnews]

Ant... you're for once either speaking out of your ass or from a myopic eurocentric perspective from 2:50 onwards because... are you actually saying literacy precludes tribalism??? That is utter nonsense! If it does preclude a political form of collective coherence at the level of the ethnos... because THAT is what you're saying, then: what has it done with regards to state-bound nationalism? I am talking authoritarianism in Adornos sense right now. Your political philosophy isn't very solid bro

[fruitsofnews]

By the way I see this whole conversation similar to the way you frame it... i call this the multiple "-ure" debate. CULTURE/STRUCTURE/NATURE. And as culturally socially and structurally determined beings... everytime anyone tries to elaborate on how nature and our cultural evolution are correlated... it becomes very clear, that the realm of limitless guesstimation opens up... and I fear you're doing just the same here...

[Professoranton]

@fruitsofnews Do you suggest that there is no meaningful distinction between natural evolution by genetic selection and culture changes brought about by the acts by individuals, sometimes by people who in fact have no offspring?

[Professoranton]

@fruitsofnews What do you think is the best form of defense against tribalism? Literacy is admittedly aligned with nationalism, but do you think science is possible without literacy? Not sure what the reference to Adorno is meant to demonstrate?

[OinopsPontos]

...If you don't think evolution can occur extremely rapidly, every breed of domesticated dog came from the wolf within 10,000 years. Societal pressures could easily further "academic" or "literacy" propensities.

[OinopsPontos]

"We don't have a genetic predisposition to literacy."

How could you possibly know that? You don't think propensity toward literacy gives you an edge on survival that would be more likely to be passed on than not? Virtually any trait that randomly occurs can become more frequent if it helps survival...

[TheOuroborosWyrm]

That's the problem I'm talking about. I'm arguing from a point of view that is fairly critical of Habermas and critical theory in general. The critique is from a guy named is Kompridis, one of Habermas' students I think. My knowledge is limited, as my interests in the Frankfurt School is simply in how it informed the post-positivists; of which, in my vulgar way, I am one. Sorry for the confusion, I'm new to this and the limited character space is daunting.

[fruitsofnews]

please explain "leading to subjects without objects". There is no such distinction in habermas' philosophy from my understanding. Isn't it rather the denial of the subject through rationalization that causes the trouble?

[fruitsofnews]

Social evil is a moving target. It exists even within the literacy-driven-civilisation you uphold here as the remedy to barbarism. I am pinpoiting the inherently dialectic nature of the fruits of enlightenment. hence adorno. I wasn't trying to show off Ant... don't worry. I do not engage into these comments with you to pose and front. I actually enjoy this very much.

[fruitsofnews]

I am arguing that literacy isn't a remedy to antisocial fruits of civilisation. You seem to imply that. If that is so then you in my view fell -in this video at least- into the trap of those who have a rather lopsided and onesided... lol... parochial (regardless whether the vantage point is cartesian or confucian) understanding of civilisation. Allow me to put it this way:

[fruitsofnews]

and the intellectual traditions deferring from that as some sort of holy grail that liberates man and mankind from vile primordial instinctive impulses which you kinda sum up with the word "tribalism". My point is this: Nationalism, Patriotism, Tribalism, Parochialism, Provincialism have been in many ways exacerbated and amplified in their past and current horrendous sociopolitical effects through the methodical application of literacy: Science!

[fruitsofnews]

Not at all. I am listening and pondering. Weren't you the one claiming the non-link between the -according to your description above- exclusively cultural invention of literacy and our genetic dispositions. You express the possibility of serendipitous creativity that is sort of external and independent from our genetic programming. Interesting hypothesis. My problem is this: "We are both: a product of Nature and Culture." Now what I have issues with is when you interpret the act of literacy

[amabodie]

Effing brilliant Anton!

[nspeert]

You seem to be implying that behavior that is specifically selected for is always hard wired, while the kind of behavior that is subject to change based on experience could not be the product of evolution. (cont.)...