Why the Bachelors Degree Still Rules But Shouldn't

President Obama set an ambitious new goal in his speech to Congress on February 24, 2009, proclaiming that by 2020, America will ...have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world.

But some experts, like author Charles Murray, dont think we need more Americans going to college. In his new book, Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing Americas Schools Back to Reality (Random House, 2008), Murray argues that Americans place too much value on the bachelors degree.

Murray and researcher Anthony Carnevale debated Who Needs a College Education Anyway? at the Hechinger Institutes Seminar for Higher Education Reporters in December 2008. Scott Jaschik of Inside Higher Ed moderated the debate.

Murray, the W. H. Brady Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, contends that because ability varies and 50 percent of people are below average, our current system of higher education makes little sense.

Carnevale, Research Professor and Director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce, argues we should encourage as many students as possible to attend and graduate from college, because intelligence isnt fixed at birth and can be influenced by education.

After their remarks, Murray and Carnevale took questions from journalists participating in the Seminar.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• college
• bachelors degree
• higher education
• bell curve
• degree attainment
• postsecondary attainment
• college access
• below average
• drive a forklift
• social mobility
• social inequality
• upward mobility
• american education

[assWompingMadNess]

"that's the way the system is..."

this guys right in what he says....you can take courses and finish in 1 and 2 years...but getting the bachelor's will open much more doors and salary......thats just the way it is

[muskndusk]

I have a number of friends of various ages who have read, or are reading for M.A's. This is a degree aimed purely at the academic, and is only useful for teaching in further/higher education. It seems to have become the new B.A now that the BA has lost its value. The new status symbol is having a Masters!

[TaviYamato]

look at EUROPE here we study 3 years for a license or bachelors and another 2 FOOOking years for a masters that is 5 fucking years

[centurion180ad]

I wasn't bourn a fool, and I've read The Bell Curve.

Corporation hiring is controlled by Law Society act, statute & code, and the PRIMARY concern there is the gene & chromosome content of human flesh, not on the content of education, or of experience, or of character.

[saintgauden]

@muskndusk When I was a Freshman in High School..way back in 1991...the teachers were all telling the students that they couldn't do anything without a MA. Now, I have two of them...the PhDs are all the rage these days. However, these take up a substantial portion of your life (5-8 years depending on the program).

[Shrunkenhead61]

@Popsfresh This is sort of off-topic. Of course you know of Charles Murray. Have you heard of John Taylor Gatto? He has some valid points to why it is the way it is. It's interesting. Some of it can be called conspiracy (whatever). Alfie Kohn is a little radical but has some creative way to approach learning. His economical and political approach I don't care for. He wants more government schooling. He wants libertarians and I forgot what he is to come to an understanding. Gatto vs Kohn lol.

[Popsfresh]

@Shrunkenhead61 Exactly. That is the point. Its credentialism. The BA is not so much about educational quality or job performance, its about the credential, and the socioeconomic / sentimental value of being a university graduate as opposed to a presumed lazy shop kid who smoked weed during lunch who just has a GED. You don't need your BA to do your job, however it speaks to your maturity and discipline and presentation.

[Popsfresh]

@benjamindees Well here in Ontario the government is responsible for universities and colleges - that is why I call them an enabler. They put all these things in place to allow you, if you choose, to continue education after grade 12. It may be different where you are with the private universities. I say university is a good place as the space that it provides - the physical layout of a university, grounds and labs and such.

[benjamindees]

@Popsfresh The role of government is not that of enabler, but of limiter. That's what the word literally means.

Personally I find lots of intellect, motivation, imagination, insight, peace, quiet, things that help me understand the world better, and many like-minded individuals with whom to converse, here online. The notion of the four-year university as the sole, or even best, progenitor of scholarship has become a destructive anachronism.

[Shrunkenhead61]

@assWompingMadNess Sure, opinions. You can believe anything but if your belief doesn't hold weight you begin to doubt. BA's are useless in some contexts as some contexts it isn't. Learning a subject is good (though BA's doesn't show that). Using it to leverage a resume is brown nosing. Authority tells you to poop in your hand, you show them it. If you were to remove the BA's power, in terms of job prospects, how many people would not go to college? If engineers didn't need college would they go?

[Shrunkenhead61]

@Popsfresh I think he addresses this in the video. "In principle". You would be an idiot to say that a BA doesn't open doors. Employers use it as a filter. All he is saying is why? If you can learn the materials with other means and in a shorter span with competency, why 4-years at a "name brand school"? Also, I don't think the ones he is addressing in this conference would respect him if it hadn't been for his laurels. A homeless guy saying the BA system is whack? Who would listen?