Shooting - vintage footage from Japan

Shooting or Shooto was one of the earliest organized MMA-type sports, originating in Japan in 1985. It featured a blend of Muay Thai style stand-up fight combined with an aggressive ground game. The glove were much lighter than in boxing of the time and there was no other protection. In Japan it was marketed similarly to WWF in the US with much hype, odd characters, masks and outfits - however the fighting was fearsome and full contact.

The Super Tiger gym was one of the best known in Japan - established by Satoru Sayama who started the sport. It came to the USA in 1991 when Yorinaga Nakamura, one of Sayama's top students began to teach it at the Inosanto Academy. Shoot fighter greats like Erik Paulson started with Nakamura.

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[mthai66]

Mutual, my friend.

[206WarEagle]

Full Nelson is actually a pretty effective move if the person applying it is familiar with the subtleties of it. Your knowledge of our shared sport is very cool, Im truly happy to be chatting with you!

[mthai66]

I think the deal with the "Kimura" is that shoulder attacks are technically illegal in Judo, and that the original Kodokan sub "Ude Garami" was done in such a way as to attack the elbow and not the shoulder. Kimura comes in and double-wrist-locks Helio, and pops his shoulder, and the Brazilians adopt the sub but name it after the guy who showed it first (Kimura). I think double-wrist-lock/upward-key-l­ock was the equivalent in Judo to full nelson in Folkstyle: known but banned in competition.

[206WarEagle]

Agreed. I have avoided training BJJ for the most part. Basically wanted to be familiar with their game and learn the subs/escapes/reversals/etc so as to deal with them from a defensive standpoint. I notice the BJJ "practitioners" and the wanna bes and they actually dont have a very successful sub/attempt ratio. I learned what to be wary of and how to deal with it. But I have little interest in repeatedly attempting the same "Kimura" (actually a catch wrestling move) over and over to no avail.

[mthai66]

There is a parallel development in Brazil among the Thaiboxers; they befriended and cross trained with the Luta Livre guys after Gracie students invaded their gym. Luta Livre is essentially modern Subgrappling, and combining with Muaythai created a modern skill set. Eugenio Tadeu and Marco Ruas are from this group.

Renan Pitanguy X Eugênio Tadeu is a great fight and illustrates perfectly how classic Gracie JJ was a dinosaur compared to the new hybrid style. They were Brazil's shootboxers. 

[mthai66]

For sure, I'm just saying that the Japanese hybrid fighters we're limited in the first few years after UFC I by their lack of exposure to BJJ. By 1996 I would say they had the *advantage* due to their superior familiarity with Muaythai. Once they adapted to what BJJ brought to the table, the Shootfighters essentially were modern MMA fighters competing in a field of dinosaurs.

[206WarEagle]

Yup, there has been cross-styles matches in the "modern era" as far back as Inoki's adventures. But Brazil with it's Vale Tudo tradition and the Japanese with their anything goes attitudes regarding competition were much more advanced in comparison with the vast majority of the North American Martial Arts community. Have you checked out the White Dragon tourney where Oleg Taktarov first competed? Last time I checked there was footage of it on youtube. Seems like it was quite a rugged tourney.

[mthai66]

Sakuraba too.

[mthai66]

Here's the thing: it's very easy to think of the first years following UFC I as "from the beginning" because it seems like a very short time. But 1994, 1995 and 1996 saw a huge improvement in other grappling styles exposure to the Brazilian style. 0 years exposure to BJJ is completely different than 1, 2 or 3 *years* exposure to BJJ competitors/instructors/tapes/­sparring-partners. In any case, Hume, Ken, Frank, Enson, Uno, Paulson, etc. were all in US NHB events in the 90's.

[206WarEagle]

To an extent, I agree with what I think your conveying. Before and during the 80s it was about as wide open as can be, it was anybodies game and the Gracies had a major "secret" advantage. But even from the beginning of the UFC there was Shoot/Pancrase presence with the Shamrock brothers and representing Pro-Wrestling, Sakuraba had his noted era of dominance over the Gracies in specific and BJJ in general.