Quick Answers to Calvinists Romans 9:11-13 - Jacques More

In the Quick Answers to Calvinists Series this is the 1st of 3 about passages in Romans 9. Here is Verses 11-13 where Jacob is promised not Esau and this happened before either men were born: before either had done any right or wrong: God's decision (election) is explained here as about Gods purposes in the nations - the promise and choice had nothing to do with the salvation of Jacob or Esau.

The text of Romans 9 is looked at thereby from Verse 6 right up to the end of Verse 13.

The illustration is used by Paul to point to God calling = a child of promise and this links back therefore to Paul's mention of those called in Romans 8 where he expounded on God's conditional predestination: see my video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFplZVAuE_E&feature=channel_page

If you would like to know more about Jacques More and his writings go to www.jarom.net

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[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

For Ephesians 2:1 and associated I recommend this video:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists Ephesians 2:1 - Jacques More"

Jeremiah 13:23 is specific: it is about those who are "accustomed to do evil"

So, in context all can turn as the least needed is a cry out for help. But those who want evil and are accustomed to it God does not help.

It is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness the Scripture tells us will be filled.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Uhh, no. You still cant get around the fact, Paul is speaking of the natural man, without Christ. We are not born into this world as children of God, but of wrath. Eph. 2:3. So the natural man, would obviously be those outside of Christ. So Paul is explaining that these people are acting like the unregenerate, and might not be saved. And no, man cannot turn on his own. As Jer. 13:23 tells us, unless the ethiopian can change his skin, or the leopard his spots....NO!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

So, here you agree with me that even Christians can act as 'the natural man' so that it is not about God's enabling, but the willingness of the individual not to be that way.

For them to be Chrsitian at all they have to have God's Spirit in their lives, is that not so?

Then, the natural man is not that way because he cannot be otherwise, but because he does not want to be otherwise, though he can turn and ask God for a new heart.

cf. Ezekiel 18:31

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Exactly!! They were acting like the unregenerate! That is what Paul is saying. You need to grow, from babes, to adults! He says, he could not speak to them as spiritual, but as men of the flesh. Infants in Christ, are still fleshly. But they grow in Spirituality. These people did not grow! He is admonishing them. Hmm...must be why he tells them in chapter 6- Do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolators, nor adulterers .......will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

I agree IF Paul had stopped there, BUT THEN you see WHY he is saying ALL THIS. You know, the context.

"And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual - SEE YOU ARE NOT LIKE THOSE OF "US" I HAVE DESCRIBED AS YOU SHOULD BE - but as to carnal - YES "YOU" ARE BEING THE NATURAL ONES - as to babes in Christ - AS IF YOU HAD LEARNED NOTHING." 1 Corinthians 3:1

Do you not see this context?

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy You just cant see it can you? 1Cor. 2:14 is making a distinction, between the natural man and the spiritual man. Paul is writing to believers, and uses the term "We"(verse 12) as well as "us". In which things "we" also speak,not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit(verse13). Notice, he is speaking of "Us" as spiritual. Christians to be precise. Then he goes on in verse 14 to make the comparison, with the little word, "BUT". Its plain as day!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

When a Christian is in the flesh, he sins against God just as Paul talks about this in Romans 8:5-6 and as per the NKJV:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, WHO DO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT" Romans 8:1

This is exactly the same in 1 Corinthians 2:14 IN CONTEXT as per the video.

Free-will was universally taught for 400 years before Augustine deviated from sound doctrine.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Okay, I have just watched your 1Cor. 2:14 video. And it proves my point, that you dont know how to read the verse. So, Paul made a distinction between the Spiritual, and the Natural. I have no problem there. Paul, was talking about the natural man, since early in the Book. (try 1:18-25) And it seems you are trying to say, the natural man, is a 'babe' in Christ. 'Babes' in Christ, dont consider the' things' of God foolishness! You keep trying to hold on to that 'Freewill"!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

The deal is I have given a specific answer to each of the Scriptures you have 'brought forth'. To these answers you have not responded. Therefore who is the unteachable one?

Of course if you don't look at the answers and want to believe what you want to believe you were always free to do that.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy hey, you do what you have to. I have brought forth, scripture after scripture, to show you , that you are in error. You are not teachable. You dont want to know the truth. And the reason I havent watched your videos, is I have seen plenty of your scripture twisting, here in the comments. I dont think I can take a 10 minute video. Sorry.