Abiogenesis: Miller-Urey and Orgel

A clip from the groundbreaking "Ascent of Man" documentary from the BBC, which discusses experiments and other theories surrounding abiogenesis, and contains a dramatization of the Miller-Urey experiment, and actual photos/clips from Orgel's experiments.

The experiments:
Miller-Urey
Orgel

Despite the controversy surrounding the results of these experiments, the fact remains that they indeed did produce various amino acids, including adenine, in the case of the Orgel experiments. Also of note is that this series was produced in 1973, and even more compelling information has of course come to light.

New techniques were used recently (2008) on the vials of results of the Miller-Urey experiment, and found that 22 amino acids were created in that experiment, instead of the 5 that Miller was able to isolate. News article here:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081016141411.htm

More information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Orgel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/
http://talkorigins.org/

The Ascent of Man, while dated, is an EXCELLENT documentary, and I highly recommend watching the entire series.

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• abiogenesis
• stanley
• miller
• harold
• urey
• leslie
• orgel
• origin
• how
• did
• life
• form
• from
• non-life
• nonlife
• human
• molecular
• molecule
• biology
• biochemical
• chemistry
• chemical
• ascent
• man
• documentary
• evolution
• evolutionary

[qabala]

@JungleJargon

I have repeatedly corrected you that I do NOT believe "objects" made or refined me. You are, again, repeating a strawman argument.

What is the "function" of hydrogen?

I have already shown that a mountain has a function without requiring direction. It is an "object". Correct?

What pre-existing word? Where? Prove it!

You are the one adhering to a belief and have yet to even attempt to prove it.

[JungleJargon]

@qabala Your job is to prove what you believe. You have to prove objects made or refined what you are.

The only reason we know the mountain has a Maker is because we know the function of hydrogen in life forms has a Maker. All matter is derived from hydrogen.

Function implies being directed. I did not move any goalpost.

Life forms only exist because of the preexisting word that made them.

[qabala]

@JungleJargon

It is not my job to prove the mountain has a maker. YOU are the one making the positive assertion so the onus is on YOU to prove that the mountain has a maker.

However, you have now moved the goalpost. You said function requires an intelligent agent and I have shown that this is not the case. Now you are changing verbiage.

Now you'll have to show how any biological system has a "visible directive". So please demonstrate the "direction" to any of these functions.

[JungleJargon]

@qabala You never proved the mountain does not have a Maker but that is not the way to know it has a Maker because a mountain has no visible directives that order it to have any function. It is just there because of properties of the earth.

You are confusing function with perceived purpose that you ascribe to the mountain.

It is not about purpose, it is about directed functions, working parts and mechanisms that always have a maker.

You showed nothing because purpose isn't a function.

[qabala]

@JungleJargon

A mountain functions as a natural barrier to wind. Just because something serves a function does not mean it was made. And if, by chance, a volcano should make a mountain does not mean the maker was intelligent. You mach nothing but presumptions and discard testable science.

So you're saying living things are composed of common elements and this somehow makes life unlikely? Do you even know what you're arguing?

As I've shown function is not necessarily directed.

[JungleJargon]

@qabala There is nothing circular about anything I said, it is all in a direct line of cause and effect.

Function always requires a maker and directed function requires a maker more than once. It is a fact of life.

Most common elements in the table of elements are the universally interchangeable working parts inside of you only when directed to function.

All functions are directed, I say say they are directed as a qualifier so people don't try to say natural occurances are directed.

[qabala]

@JungleJargon

Fine, show me a directed function and explain how you know it's directed.

Show me an "ordered" function and explain how it is ordered.

Whoa there! You just switched terminology. So what happened to the "universally interchangeable" part and where did the term, "common element" come from? Obfuscate much?

I'm predicting now that the only way you can form a consistent argument is to make it circular. Let's see if I'm right.

[JungleJargon]

@qabala Any directed function always requires a maker.

The only way to disprove that is to show me an ordered function that does not have a maker.

Most of the most common elements are the working parts inside of us.

[qabala]

@JungleJargon

Well, now you're going to have to show how these supposed "interchangeable" parts were directed or ordered. Then you hunter/arrowhead argument might be relevant.

Until then you're doing nothing but making a "god of the gaps" fallacy.

But please list these 17 parts. Then please explain how they are "interchangeable". I still suspect you're using the word wrong and you seem too be afraid to give me your definition.