How to End Poverty

A teaser introducing the reform needed to end poverty. The monopoly man is often times a bank or financial institution, the de facto landlords via mortgages. http://howtoendpoverty.info/

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[FletchforFreedom]

"[W]e had the spectacle of valuable land being kept out of the market until the exact moment for its sale was reached, regardless of the fact that its increased value was due to the exertions of the surrounding community. Then we had the idea that, if those obstructions could be cleared out of the way, free enterprise would bound forward and small people would have a chance to get a home, or to improve their existing homes.... But here at the moment we have the exact opposite." (1952)

[HowtoEndPoverty]

@FletchforFreedom

Please sum up the reason that you disagree with the idea of deriving most public revenue from passive increases in land value without equivocating or using terms with more personalized connotations. I will kindly engage in a dialectic with you as long as you play fair. It seems that the debate turned nasty from the few comments I read. So let's afford each other a clean slate.

[FletchforFreedom]

@HowtoEndPoverty That's just it. I DON'T object necessarily with the use of land taxes as a "less bad" means of generating governmental revenue. The difficulties that I have are with the notions that a) land is somehow different from other commodities, b) land value is "created" by sociali interaction, c) there is a justification for taxing land that is inherentl different from other types and d) the "monopolization" of land works as the video describes. None are true.

[HowtoEndPoverty]

@FletchforFreedom

I think you are getting caught up in things that can be taken different ways depending on your specific background and the way you and others with different intellectual backgrounds might define certain words. If I understand your position correctly, you don't disagree with the idea of collecting most if not all public revenue from land values? The video is a simplification designed in order to make the idea accessible to people with no background in political economy.

[FletchforFreedom]

@HowtoEndPoverty I guess the chief difficulty I have with the video is that it is inconsistent with history. There is and has been for our lifetimes a robust and viable market for property and land. The monopolization that prevents the poor from having a chance has demontrably not taken place.

It must be noted that those in poverty today live vastly better than even the wealthy a century ago so the notion that poverty endures is only true so long as the bar is raised ever higher.

[HowtoEndPoverty]

@FletchforFreedom

Rent does not always increase in the real world perfectly in tandem with increases in productivity. There are many complicating factors. The results of these complicating factors do not defy the Law of Rent, they just inhibit private appropriation of rent.

For instance, let us not forget that property taxes do exist, and this does capture a small portion of land rent for public use.

What poverty are you referring to, and where does this reduced poverty exist?

[HowtoEndPoverty]

@FletchforFreedom

Try watching the video response and then we can talk about raising the margin of production and how LVT accomplishes this such that wages rise.

[travelingjohn69]

@xgvicious Not how do you become, how do you get rid of Mr.Monopoly.

[travelingjohn69]

How's about kick Mr.monopoly's ass. Us poor folks tried to leave once but he followed. He is intentionally creating poverty so he can have spoils for himself.

[xgvicious]

so, how do I become Mr. monopoly.

[royll6]

@thoth81 Yes, the physical qualities nature provides also affect land value, but they are almost never what changes when land value increases.

[thoth81]

You forgot to add that geographical location and topographical features play a part as well.

[royll6]

@FletchforFreedom Economists do not "recognize" that land behaves like any other commodity, as it indisputably does not. That's just a fabrication on your part. Land's supply is FIXED, with all that that implies. Income derived from a tractor or other capital goods is NOT ECONOMIC RENT but a return to productive contribution of capital. And others are INHERENTLY harmed by ownership of land, as it removes the liberty they would otherwise enjoy to use the land.

[royll6]

@FletchforFreedom Value in the relevant sense -- the amount a thing can be exchanged for in the market -- is NEVER subjective (get that stupid Austrian School $#!+ out of your head), as exchange requires differing opinions of at least two participants. It is INDISPUTABLE that the unimproved value of land comes from the services and infrastructure government provides and the opportunities and amenities the community provides that MAKE the land more desirable (i.e., in demand).

[royll6]

@FletchforFreedom The only absurdities I see here are your claims. It is INDISPUTABLE that land value is publicly created: it is exactly the same if the landowner is comatose, or if he had never existed. The ONLY factors that increase the unimproved value of land are the services and infrastructure government provides, the opportunities and amenities the community provides, and the physical qualities nature provides. Nothing that private landowners provide.

[royll6]

@FletchforFreedom a: Land is different from other commodities in many ways, most importantly that it is not produced by people, and

b: Its value comes from the services and infrastructure government provides and the opportunities and amenities the community provides, not anything its owner does.

c: The unique justification for taxing land is that it recovers publicly created value rather than taking privately created value.

d: Land monopoly DOES work as the video describes.

[royll6]

@FletchforFreedom The "robust and viable" market for land is like a market in taxi medallions or licenses to steal, and it is demonstrable, indeed obvious, that without government intercession on behalf of the landless, they would indeed not have a chance, just as they do not in countries where private landowning is well established but government does not intercede to prevent landowning from making the landless effectively slaves: Bangladesh, the Philippines, Guatemala, etc.