Ken Miller refutes the "irreducible complexity" of mousetraps

It says a lot about the ID movement when even their analogies fail under minor scrutiny.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Evolution
• Ken
• Miller
• Intelligent
• design
• mousetrap
• Irreducble
• Complextiy

[YamiYami17]

hey think with time a non-living thing can start to live, a non aware being can start to aware,Information (like DNA) can be formed without intellegence,

social behaviour and techniques of animals and insects is in the genes ! an the best is this stuff : /watch?v=dOyc98tV5kA did? evolve wings ! and the ability to fly !

throug random mutations and naturel selection, needless to speak about the evolution of plantes ...

please hold down to the real science :)

[divvy1400yam600]

@Gilmar The for example list 'things' that could not possibly evolved.

Mr G when reading anything is may be necessary to link what has gone b4 with what is being read OK

So I state 'evo is impossible' and then give examples. Gerrit

Does your religion tell you how sexual reproduction can possibly have evolved ?

If so please explain.

I assume you know what sexual reproduction is.

Its when the Daddy bear puts his wonga into the Mummy bear's Donga

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe­hehe

[Gilmaris]

@divvy1400yam600 Your little example bears no resemblance to evolutionary theory and so it does not apply. And what do you mean, "FOR EXAMPLE" sexual reproduction? Example to what?

As for advantages, they can hardly be selected for until they already have appeared, can they? A mutation happens - if it is harmful, it will die out. If it is useful, it will stick around. Who has the best odds at survival and reproduction, after all?

[divvy1400yam600]

@Gilmaris My little example was not designed to explain how evolution is supposed to work but the impossibility of it working at all.

For example: perhaps you could explain how sexual reproduction evolved ?

It's not even more efficient than asexual reproduction.

Listing advantages AFTER it has evolved doesn't count

What advantages accrued during evolution ?

None.  It follows evo is NOT an explanation.

Ditto walking upright,vision, hearing and much more.

OK ?

As for itchy gonads

[Gilmaris]

@divvy1400yam600 There is one critical flaw in your comparison: selection. In your scenario there is randomness, but no selection. In nature, there is selection. With technology, human needs is the selective force (which is why eg. the laserdisc went the way of the dodo, because it was outcompeted by other media, such as the CD). Evolution is not random, even if the accidents are.

[divvy1400yam600]

@Gilmaris lets consider a spring on the mousetrap.

What I want you to do is this...

Assembling a mousetrap minus a spring.

Fit it to a small nuclear powered motor that will keep moving in random directions for 1 million years.

Find a metal scrap yard and throw the mousetrap into the middle

Every 20K years check to see if the mousetrap has acquired a spring of the right dimensions

That represents the level of improbability peeps like you accept by believing your religion of Evo.

[itchygonads]

@divvy1400yam600 Not at all...In fact you have revealed who is really stupid...Yourself. this is an argument against irreducible complexity, you either do not know what that is..Or you are so biased that you reject any answer. Both are probable. Evolution is a fact, it doesnt matter if some children refuse to believe it. It doesnt make the theory wrong when people chose to ignore it...It just makes them stupid.

[divvy1400yam600]

@itchygonads that which this presenter presents

He is the long lost 8th dwarf.

Dopey's big sista..Dozy.

To present an item created by a thought process and change it by giving some thought to the matter and somehow conclude he has provided an argument in favour of evo is quite frankly ...stupid.

[Gilmaris]

@divvy1400yam600 "Well...could they ?"

Yes, they actually could. Many inventions came about from cross-application and happy accidents. In the case of the mousetrap, as with many other things, NONE of its components were invented with mouse-catching in mind. Not woodworking, not metallurgy, not pins, not springs, and not bait. The mousetrap did not appear out of a vaccuum.