The Lost Evidence Alamein (5/5)

The First Battle of El Alamein 1--27 July 1942 was a battle of the Western Desert Campaign of the Second World War, fought between Axis forces (Germany and Italy) commanded by Erwin Rommel, and Allied forces (Britain, India, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand) commanded by Claude Auchinleck. The battle halted the second (and final) advance by the Axis forces into Egypt, El Alamein being only 66 miles from Alexandria

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[soolerman]

@11nytram11 Thanks for the info and I will have a look mate. I would suggest you look at the after-action reports of his campaigns and the reports of the time from the guys that where their. As well as the war game reconstructions done by the UK armed forces over the years. Sadly you will not get to do what I did, ie speak to guys that knew him and served under him first hand. Funny but bastered, murderer and little shit don’t get into the history books. I found them common comments as a child.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman Stephen A. Hart's book Colossal Cracks is a bloody difficult read but it delves into the reasons behind Montgomery's approach far more than any other assessment of Bernard Montgomery career has ever done. Read that for a more complete explorations of his methods.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman The assessment of the German of Monty being predictable, therefore, is kind of worthless. They may have been able to predict what he was going to do but they failed utterly in countering it.

Furthermore, a great deal of the cautiousness exhibited by Montgomery had to do with Britain's situation. They were running out of manpower. Britain could not afford for Monty to take risks if it was going to be in any position to have a say in how post-Europe was shaped.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman Montgomery worked out a system that worked for the Army he commanded. Colossal Cracks. It involved relying on overwhelming firepower and sacrificed maneuver. It played to the strengths of the British Army, not the German. While it may have become predictable the Germans failed to come up with anyway to counter it and the only they managed to defeat a Montgomery campaign outright was the most un-Montgomery-like campaign the British Army fought in WW2 - Market Garden.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman Market Garden was a failure of the whole Allied High Command. Eisenhower never gave it the support he promised it, Bradley/Patton engaged their armies in combat so as to prevent anything being diverted from them, Monty was negligent in exersizing command, Browning/Brereton planned poorly, they &Dempsey failed to display any zeal or grip in executing it, XXX Corp didnt move quickly enough and 82nd Airborne failed to take their targets on schedule. Blame can be shared around.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman My other points are not self-defeating.

Dempsey planned & commanded Goodwood & Epsom. As commander of the British 2nd Army he was responsible for the tactical operations in the British sector of the Campaign. He was the equivilent of Bradley there & they conducted their operations under the overall guidence of Montgomery who was Allied Land Forces Commander. Credit of blame for the campaign overall rest with Monty & with the individual sectors lies with Bradley/Dempsey.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman I did not call Monty incompetant, I said you were trying to portray him as some kind of incompetant.You ribbished his victories, place the tactical failures of other on his shoulder and belittled him as a commander while championing Rommel.

Rommel is a cult and one of the most overrated generals in history. Kesselring once said Rommel had not aptitude for strategy or logistics and that he was a failure as an army commander because of his habit of leading charges.

[11nytram11]

@soolerman Rommel was refering to the fact that Montgomery relied on tried and tested methods and the not unproven theory that his predecessors had. That Monty kept his army well in hand and had the 8th working as an army not individual units.

Rommel knew he was facing a different kind of adversary after Alam el Halfa when he bemoaned that "the swine isn't attacking" as Monty let him break himself against the Alam el Halfa Ridge.

[soolerman]

@11nytram11 Rommel was referring to the build up and the need to fight on two fronts. It is also you that call him incompetent not me. The facts are he was to systematic and cautious. He also made the mistake of being predictable. OB West assessment as well as the assessment of Model, Maxwell, Matthew and Alan Wood to name but a few. His actions also do not stand up well to modem assessment. Your other points are self defeating in themselfs mate.

[11nytram11]

@OMBspa In calling the British cowards you deminish the actions of the Italians. The Italians fought a brave and highly competant defense against a foe who enjoyed superiority of manpower and material and they fought on longer than Rommel who sacrificed them to save his own skin. It is an action worthy of high praise but in levelling acusations of cowardice against the British you lessen the strenght of the opposition the Italians faced and so tarnish their efforts.