Schoenberg - Verklärte Nacht, op.4-1

Schoenberg
Verklärte Nacht, op.4-1
P. Boulez
New York Philharmonic Orchestra

Category:

Music

[johngoforth77]

wtf....what a horrible place to end it

[MattiasXL]

It's too bad that we don't appreciate Shoenberg's earlier works as much. He had an incredible knack for Romantic writing.

[TheWakingGiant]

what. wow.

[annacuj]

@MattiasXL

So true - I've also always believed he was a romanting under everything else, but it's wonderful to travel forward and time and let your ear adjust... what a great guy.

[featheon]

Too slow for me, again.

[DerekWilliamsMusic]

@tinydestroyer No I said "as good as write Mahler off as boring", not quite the same as saying you called him boring. It was in respect of your own description of Mahler, if I may quote you directly: "Mahler was the child staring ponderously at his ball while the other kids were running with theirs." and "Let's enjoy this V chord for another 5 minutes, shall we?"

It's pretty hard to detect a liking for Mahler from either of those two comments! Just for the record.

[tinydestroyer]

@DerekWilliamsMusic Sure. But just for the record, I am really not trying to debate tastes (nor did I call Mahler boring -- I like Mahler.)

[DerekWilliamsMusic]

@tinydestroyer Developmental Drive doesn't have to consist of faster harmonic rhythm, nor indeed metrical rhythm, other than that there's always a timeline. It could just as easily derive form timbral or texturral intensification. You're the first person I've 'met' to as good as write Mahler off as boring for doing something that Beethoven and Tchaikowsky also do.

As I said several posts ago when I could see where you were going with this, let's drop it and agree to disagree. Our tastes differ.

[tinydestroyer]

@tinydestroyer [continued] S's post-tonal style, while excellent, was IMO the most derivative of his compositional periods. So it seems that living up to that early potential would be living up to someone else's potential, not his own. He would be an equal Mahler, not an independent Schoenberg. (Whether one likes his serial works is immaterial -- they are nevertheless his unique achievement.) *shrug*

[tinydestroyer]

@DerekWilliamsMusic I see. I didn't actually accuse Mahler of "vain repetition" - the phrase is entirely yours--I just found it amusing that someone who is quite famous for drawing out harmonies for a very long time was cited as a master of developmental drive. FWIW, I read your original comment as describing S as as a kind of lesser Mahler.  [continued in next comment]

[DerekWilliamsMusic]

@tinydestroyer I had to re-read my post to see where I accused S of "vain repetition" but could find it nowhere on this thread. You accused Mahler of what I would term 'vain repetition', and so my use of the phrase in rebuttal, by citing Beethoven and Tchaikowsky as repeaters of motifs, was in response to that, not in any way an accusation that S indulged in vain repetition. If you look at my original post, you will see I was quite positive about the IMHO unlived up to promise the work portends.

[tinydestroyer]

@DerekWilliamsMusic Yes, Beethoven was quite good at prolonging his harmonies when he wanted to (although I think Mahler certainly takes the trophy in that category). I just find it curious that anyone can accuse Schoenberg of 'vain repetition.'