Training for Throwers - Anatoli Bondarchuk - My Opinions www.PrimalATC.com

Bondarchuk is the man. Plain and Simple. His methods are proven, they work, and they are used by throwers and coaches all around the world. However, there are some questions that come up because Bondarchuk worked and proved his methods with world class athletes. Will it work with younger athletes? Watch the video to learn more.

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• Bondarchuk
• Anatoli
• training
• hammer
• shot
• shot put
• discus
• javelin
• transfer of training
• Shot Put
• Hammer Throw
• Javelin Throw

[trinalin1]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've coached beginners and college level, too. If you look at one lift such as the bench, which a lot of high school coaches advocate, I wouldn't say it's a total waste of time, but it certainly could be replaced with more beneficial activities. It's too slow and throwers do not use that action anyway. For discus, javelin and hammer throwers it can be counter productive. You're still young, you'll eventually come around :)

[PrimalATC]

@trinalin1 I will agree with you on that. Bench can be replaced but at Primal we work with lighter percentages and work on moving them as fast as possible. We also do a lot of explosive push ups, olympic lifts with dumbbells, and a bunch of other explosive plyo movements. I use the bench as an example in this video because I am sitting on the bench. Was the first thing to pop into my head. What I talk about can be applied to squat, deadlift, overhead press, etc.

[trinalin1]

See what Justin Rodhe (20.77) says in this regard. He is a lot stronger and doesn't use the bench, etc.

[PrimalATC]

@trinalin1 I have read about Justin and his training with Bondarchuk and I agree completely. But, Rodhe is an elite level thrower. I am working with high school athletes and beginner coaches. Beginner athletes need to focus more on their general strength and less on specific strength in the weightroom. Specific training should be done in the throwing circle when an athlete is younger and just starting out.

[YKballer07]

im starting shot and discus soon, and i was wondering if you know any places online where i can get cheap, but quality throwing shoes. the new nike rotational 5's are available on the 9th and they are $100. i would get them, but i know i'm going to outgrow them, so that's why i would prefer a cheap, solid shoe.

[PrimalATC]

@YKballer07 Depends on your shoe size. If you wear a size 10-15 you are out of luck. Those sold out months ago. If your foot is small(er), you might be able to find some at Eastbay? Call them because the inventories might not be correct on the websites. Good Luck.

[ytubeserb]

He once mentioned what he considers a good measure for shot and discus. That was 160kg bench, 150 clean and 200kg squat. Should you go for 160kg and just stop there? No. Depending on the individual, adding 20 more kilos to that lift can still have a positive transfer on the throw. The coaches job is to determine when the work on absolute strength is no longer worth it. And again, the experience Bondarchuk has makes this easy for him.

[ytubeserb]

In all of his books he says that the periodization methods he uses and the exercise complexes should be applied to higher level athletes. In Soviet and most European training systems, this means that the athletes already went through general preparation, so they already have a strength base. Bondarchuk is also good at what he does because of the individual approach to athletes. If a 140kg bench was enough for Rodhe to start with Bondarchuk, it doesn't mean it's for everyone.

[ytubeserb]

Bondarchuks methods are not just about the training transfer. The actual usage of those exercises, the duration of training complexes, the order, intensity, volume, etc. The big picture is why he is the master. The same way heavy implements can have a positive transfer to throws, they can have a negative transfer as well if used for too long or are affected by what comes before or after those throws. And that's just one example.

[ytubeserb]

@trinalin1 Actually, Justin uses bench press in his training, but they never go over 130kg, they just work on moving the bar faster. He says that in the interview that Martin Bingisser did with him. 

[sjm39]

@trinalin1 just like you don't bench in a throw, you don't squat in one, and you certainly don't clean or snatch. Just watch on this very website, Robert Harting and Gerd Kanter, ANY good shot putter, and Andreas Thorkildsen and ALL Finish Javelin throwers, they all use dynamic benching and heavy benching to achieve greater strength and explosion. Hammer throwers are a different breed I will agree with you there, but avoiding the bench press is just simply incorrect.

[sjm39]

@trinalin1 That statement couldn't be farther from the truth. To achieve stretch reflex in the upper body for a shot putter, discus thrower, or javelin thrower, you need upper body strength. You need Absolute Strength to be able to produce force on anything. As he was saying and as Bondarchuk puts it, you can achieve absolute strength, but still work on speed strength, or the ability to move sub maximal weight fast. You can't take a bench press and compare it to throwing...

[bigjoshscherer]

@bigjoshscherer I should have watched the entire video before I posted... just realized this is exactly what you're talking about haha

[bigjoshscherer]

But Bondarchuk does mention the need for a good deal of absolute strength in the core lifts. The question is, how much is enough? The strength and conditioning coaches at my school try to implement a bastardized Bondarchuk-esque method of lifting, and condemn my want for a bigger bench. I understand their point, but the fact is, I can't even bench 300lbs, and I would like to throw the shot and disc at a high-ish level. So I think this training mindset can be detrimental to younger athletes.

[stevescorpio78]

Decided to pick up Bondarchuk's book: Transfer of Training in Sports. A thick, more "academic" read, but a valuable reference.