John Calvin and Owen said God Totally Forsakes Believers

http://Godnoliar.com/owen.htm The "greatest Puritan" John Owen -- author of "Death of Death etc", "The Mortification of Sin", "The Holy Spirit" and "The Glory of Christ" -- said that believers sometimes have a "universal, total departure of God". This is in direct opposition to John 4:14 that says believers are never left thirsty.

Owen based this teaching on a misconception of the Psalms. He mistakenly thought the following verses were describing King David's own personal experiences...

"I wait for Jehovah; my soul waits, and I hope for His Word.
My soul waits for the Lord more than those watching for the morning."
(Psalm 130:5,6)

John Owen comments on these verses:

"The absence of God from the soul, by HIS DEPARTURE, withdrawing, or hiding himself from it, is that which principally casts the soul into its depths. And this woe, this sorrow, does not attend only a UNIVERSAL, TOTAL DEPARTURE OF GOD from any; but that also which is gradual or partial, in some things, in some seasons. When God withdraws his enlightening, his refreshing, his comforting presence, as to any ways or means whereby he hath formerly communicated himself unto the souls of any, then "woe unto them! ? sorrows will befall them, and they will FALL INTO DEPTHS AND ENTANGLEMENTS. ... If God be withdrawn, if he hide himself, what hath the soul to do but to wait for his return?" ("Exposition on Psalm 130")

Owen implies that the Person speaking in Psalm 130 has had a "universal, total departure of God". And he was right. The Person experiencing Psalm 130 has "absence of God from the soul". He is FORSAKEN ON GOD.

Who is He? Who did God "withdraw himself" from? And which Man had a "UNIVERSAL DEPARTURE" of the Father from his soul?

John Owen said Psalm 130 is describing the experiences of a believer.

But the New Testament says Psalm 130 is about Christ suffering on the cross.

What a HORRIBLE BLUNDER BY JOHN OWEN! He implied that believers should experience what Christ experienced on the cross. In other words, Owen said that the Father treats believers, the way He treated the Son on Calvary.

This is an enormous error and if you follow Owen's view of the Psalms, you will NEVER have Apostolic assurance of salvation. Owens view says: "If you are a believer, sometimes you will be forsaken of God and God will totally depart from you, and leave you with no hope".

But who cares what Owen said? WHAT DID THE APOSTLES SAY. They said that CHRIST was forsaken so that believers will never have to be forsaken. And Christ Himself testifies that the Father departed from Him, so that believers would never have the Father depart from them.

Psalm 130:5 "I wait for the LORD, my soul does wait"

Psalm 40:1 "Waiting I have waited on Jehovah"

Psalm 40 is applied to Christ in Heb 10:6-8

Psalm 130:1 "Out of the depths I have cried to You, O LORD."

Psalm 69:2-3 "I have come into deep waters ... I am weary from my crying."

Psalm 69 is applied 6 times to Christ in the New Testament. Verse 4 is applied to Christ in John 15:25. Also verse 8 is likewise applied to Christ in John 12:5. Verse 9 applied in John 2:17 and Rom 15:3. Verse 20,21 applied in Matt 26:56. Verse 22,23 is applied in Rom 11:9,10 to Christ.

John Owen COMMITTED the SAME BLUNDER as UNREGENERATE JEWS -- HE APPLIED the PSALMS to DAVID and not to Christ.

And remember - Owen's view DESTROYS ASSURANCE OF SALVATION. He says we are meant to experience what the Psalms describe. And since the Psalms describe Christ being forsaken on the cross, Owen is saying we should undergo hell just like Christ did!!!! In fact, he says that sometimes believers have a "UNIVERSAL, TOTAL DEPARTURE OF GOD".

Why did Owen believe that? Because he applied to David, that were actually about Christ suffering on the cross!

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[MBI3030]

who are you (Andrew) going to attack next? Who? Jesus Christ Himself!

[chrisawooldridge]

Why is it that you so hate the general revelation of God? Ezekiel 18:23,32 clearly teaches that God loves all men, and dearly wishes that all would turn and repent. If God loves everyone, then so should we, and preach the gospel universally, rather than being critical and swelling up with pride.

These church leaders whom you critisise are not perfect and may have got it wrong on occasion, but you have taken some of their statements well out of context, and therefore I must disregard your videos.

[Surfxeo]

@RemnantIM Calvinism is a God centred theology. Other systems are man centred, it is what I call Anthropology. This is why I do not believe any other doctrine that does not derives its theology direct from the Scriptures.

[ProtoSteward]

Andrew is a liar.

[RemnantIM]

Calvinism is false doctrine and anyone who follows it is obviously going to be wrong about many things for they are not being led by the Spirit.

[FallaciesDetective]

folks, how can one be sure that someone is a great and outstanding theologian ?

well, the answer is simple: whomsoever Andrew accuses is necessarily great...

it' s like a law so far...  ;)

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

Owen is being misread. "This woe attends" both:

"Universal total departure of God from any"

and

"that [departure] also which is gradual or partial, in some things, in some seasons".

*Of course* "they will, as Owen says, "fall into depths" - how could they not ? The more spiritually sensitive the Christian, the greater the anguish of this "departure". A careful reading of Owen's words shows that he is innocent of the accusation against him.

[bornfree3]

Yes, we are told in the Bible to "keep ourselves in the love of God"....this is not about our eternal salvation, but is about God's providential love and care...This is what Owen is speaking about here.....:-)

[DarthVaderShadow]

If the "forsaking" leads to a greater comfort, then it is clearly good for the believer.

[HDell1994]

I wonder if this guy is even saved himself.

[iint3grity]

With such moronic twisting and misrepresentation and ripping out of context, this AndrewcBain gut can make anything mean anything he wants it to mean. Beware! It's people who twist Scripture and everything else in this way that this guy does who end up becoming cult leaders.

[iluvthearts]

he is preaching error