Sinful Nature Versus Flesh

A short sermon that highlights potential issues with the doctrine of Sinful nature and flesh.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Calvin
• heresy
• truth
• doctrine
• Calvinism
• sinful
• nature
• flesh
• Holy
• holiness
• goodness
• evil
• indifference
• babies
• heaven
• hell

[zitan17]

wait, in the video you did say that God made Adam sinful... or at least that Calvinists teach that. yeah, you miss represent the doctrine of total depravity. I would recommend you do some study on the topic. is this done in error? or is it intentional to make Calvinists seem scriptural?

[stitty]

@zitan17 Nope, I never said God made Adam sinful. God makes no one sinful.

[zitan17]

I have never heard a calvinist say that God created man sinful. perhaps you assume too much, or your understanding of calvinism is wrong and you need to check into it. but if you know of some calvinists who do teach this kinda stuff, please let me know, I would like to check into this and see where they went wrong.

[stitty]

@zitan17 Certainly, all Calvinists teaching this. From Augustine to Calvin, Sproul to McArthur. The teachings of total depravity and original sin teach that man is born evil. Now there are those who say that it's more of a punishment and not created in that form. This is not so. God punishes people to lead them into repentance, not to sin. People become sinful from there own actions and their environment but they are born without sin.

I hope this answers your question.

[zitan17]

@stitty so your not saying that Calvinists believe that God created man in a fallen sinful state. but that Calvinists believe only that people are born in sin, handed down to them from their fathers. my confusion, it seemed that you were saying that Calvinists believe that God created Adam sinful, so I was confused on what you were saying. the T in tulip is very much taught and is very scriptural, but not very popular or pleasant. so I very much understand why you would appose such a thing

[stitty]

@zitan17 No, I never said Calvinists believe Adam was created sinful but rather that God makes all of Adam's descendants sinful. This is not a from Bible.

The problem with saying that Adam was free from sinful nature and his descendants were is what caused Adam to sin? The philosophy of sinful nature causes more problems than it solves.

The T in tulip isn't one I have found in scripture but certainly is found in other religions. God Bless you for asking these tough questions.

[zitan17]

@stitty I think the misunderstanding here comes from the difference between us and Adam. Adam was a direct creation and design of God. he was a son of God. we (apart from adoption) are not direct creations (though it is only through Jesus Christ that we have our being) we are not son's of God by default. but we are son's of our father, or son's of Adam. Adam was created directly, we were formed (by God) through our parents, to look like them and have their attributes.

[zitan17]

@stitty from your view, what does "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" if we are created by God to be selfish and fleshly, then was Christ selfish and fleshly? or when God said "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth." I get your point, and from your view we can still see that a baby is hostile to God "the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God" is this Gods doing?

[stitty]

@wheresjonnie Ah Dude, that's for watching. Yeah, the doctrine of original sin would state that babies are inherently sinful and go to hell.

We got to fight the good fight!