Episode 2 - Logic
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@ProofThatGodExists Please show how YOU justify the laws of logic and the uniformity of nature. This whole argument you are making against what I claim to know is equally applicable to what you claim to know. It self-implodes your own world view to assert that people can't know anything, so obviously, we both believe we can know many things. So, let's move on, how do you know that universal, abstract, and invariant principles can only exist as a creation of your God.
Fletch6 11 months ago
@ProofThatGodExists I know it the same way you do, through observation & validating through testing & comparing results with others
Let me ask the same question. How do you know anything to any high degree of probability? Presupposing a God that creates universal, abstract, and invariant principles doesn't mean it's true. I can presuppose magical beings, too. If we are all in The Matrix then your presupposed God is just another program running. BTW, I don't actually believe we are in The Matrix
Fletch6 11 months ago
@ProofThatGodExists If I can't know anything then of course I can't know anything, not even whether or not I can't know anything. But my position is that I have good reason to believe I do know things, just as you believe you know things. My point, which for some reason you don't be able to comprehend, that if this is the case (which I don't believe it is) it also undermines everything think you know to be true. None of us actually live believing we know nothing or that we are in The Matrix.
Fletch6 11 months ago
@Fletch6 I am not asking what you feel you have no reason to, or not to believe, I want to know how you can know anything if you cannot know if you are in the Matrix or not, or since you cannot justify the laws of logic or the uniformity of nature.
ProofThatGodExists 11 months ago
@ProofThatGodExists My world view is that we are not in The Matrix and that we have no reason to believe we are. I believe that we are evolved sentient beings on a planet circling the Sun and we regularly interact with each other.
If it turned out that we are in The Matrix then your God is a big a fantasy as my whole world. What you don't seem to realize is that this argument undermines your world view, too, because in The Matrix your God does not exist.
Fletch6 11 months ago
@Fletch6 How do you know anything if you don't know if YOU are in the Matirix or not? (And yes I can prove that I am not in the Matrix, but in order to prove it to you, I need to know what constitutes proof to someone who cannot know anything, cannot justify logic, or the uniformity of nature).
ProofThatGodExists 11 months ago
@ProofThatGodExists IF we were in The Matrix then we might not know anything. This goes for you, too. Can you prove that you are not in The Matrix? Of course not. By definition it would be impossible. The question is, is there any reason to believe that we ARE in The Matrix? I have no reason to believe that. BTW, let's be clear. I am NOT asserting that we ARE in The Matrix. I am using that to illustrate that we are in the same ontological boat. Asserting your God is real would be meaningless.
Fletch6 11 months ago
@Fletch6 Please give me an example of something that you know to a "high enough degree of probability," and how you know it, when you cannot justify logic, or the uniformity of nature.
ProofThatGodExists 11 months ago
@Fletch6 Um, if you can't know anything, how do you know what I can or cannot know? You keep refuting yourself.
ProofThatGodExists 11 months ago
@ProofThatGodExists I assert that we can know things with a high enough degree of probability that is is worth pursuing. I have no reason to assert that we are in The Matrix. Just because there is some remote chance that we could be is not a reason to ignore what we do seem to know about the Universe
Regarding your nonsense, the fact is that words DO have meaning when we use them. We can use them to the degree that they have meaning. IF we were in The Matrix then you would be as delusional as I
Fletch6 11 months ago